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re: Relation between prescription drugs and murderers?
Posted on 6/18/15 at 10:58 pm to Robin Masters
Posted on 6/18/15 at 10:58 pm to Robin Masters
quote:
Check the link...you are the fool.
You should have read the first sentence.
0
Posted on 6/18/15 at 10:59 pm to texag7
quote:
Question is do you believe prescription anti-depressants or anxiety medications play a role in any of this?
No. The link is that mentally disturbed people are more likely to kill people. Mentally disturbed people are also more likely to be using medication to try and mitigate their psychoses. The meds don't cause them to kill people.
I will say there's a differnce between Zoloft and serious medications. I don't know what James Holmes was on, but it was more than Zoloft.
This post was edited on 6/18/15 at 11:01 pm
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:01 pm to REG861
quote:I'm afraid that if people can't see this--or at least consider this--before it being explained, then they probably won't find the explanation very compelling.
No. The link is that mentally disturbed people are more likely to kill people. Mentally disturbed people are also more likely to be using medication to try and mitigate their psychoses. The meds don't cause them to kill people.
This post was edited on 6/18/15 at 11:02 pm
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:02 pm to uway
quote:
You can't possibly read that list, especially the suicides, and think it's all because they were a special kind of crazy.
On a medication that had unintended affects or trying to quit cold-turkey on a drug that was working? The frick I can't, I just did
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:03 pm to ChewyDante
I doubt there is even a correlation if you look at the numbers.
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:05 pm to the808bass
quote:
Really? MDs on the take every day? bullshite.
If I pay a doc $100k to speak for my company (the only way to funnel cash to him/her), I won't get $100k worth of prescriptions out of him/her. (Assuming a 18% profit margin, I would need the doctor to write $555k worth of my product to break even. With an average prescription reimbursement of, say $120, I would need 4,600ish prescriptions from the doc. That's 18 prescriptions per working day. Doesn't happen.)
Do some doctors use products that they speak for? Sure. And if you're infuriated by all speaking agreements, this will infuriate you, too. It would be difficult to find a more regulated industry when it comes to business arrangements and compensation than pharmaceuticals.
Truth. Its an issue every single day for me.
Most docs aren't getting 100k speaking engagement.
I actually know some of the whistleblowers in this case LINK
quote:
According to the agreement reached with the government, the Delaware-based company will pay more than $38 million to settle civil allegations under the False Claims Act. Specifically, the civil settlement resolves allegations that Kos offered and paid doctors, other medical professionals, physician groups and managed care organizations, illegal kickbacks in the form of money, free travel, grants, honoraria and other valuable goods and services, in violation of the Anti-Kickback Statute to get them to prescribe or recommend Niaspan and Advicor.
Not saying all doctors receive kickbacks and all kickbacks are not straight up cash.
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:06 pm to texag7
quote:Yes, and a lot of these stories happen right AFTER they get off of them, like some kind of withdrawal symptom.
Question is do you believe prescription anti-depressants or anxiety medications play a role in any of this?
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:06 pm to texag7
quote:
Question is do you believe prescription anti-depressants or anxiety medications play a role in any of this?
Believe? It's a scientific fact. The commercials tell you that if you listen.
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:09 pm to Robin Masters
Sure. Most doctors aren't getting $100k. Very few are. Which mitigates the issue.
And there's a difference between a kick back and a business relationship. The first is illegal. The second is, well, business.
And yes, there are instances of doctors getting kickbacks. But if you're walking into your internist worried he got a kick back to write that prescription of Crestor, rest easy. He didn't.
I worked with some shady people when I was selling to docs. They were all eventually fired from the company. I did not whistle blow (though it was tempting). There are kickbacks. Sure. But they happen outside the system, not within it.
And there's a difference between a kick back and a business relationship. The first is illegal. The second is, well, business.
And yes, there are instances of doctors getting kickbacks. But if you're walking into your internist worried he got a kick back to write that prescription of Crestor, rest easy. He didn't.
I worked with some shady people when I was selling to docs. They were all eventually fired from the company. I did not whistle blow (though it was tempting). There are kickbacks. Sure. But they happen outside the system, not within it.
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:17 pm to the808bass
quote:
And there's a difference between a kick back and a business relationship. The first is illegal. The second is, well, business.
Semantics. Call it whatever you want. The medical industry is so savvy now that no one outright gets cash for referrals. Its all bullshite "research" or $5k "speeches". You don't just walk in with a bag with a $ on it.
Some docs need it and some don't. Its a big issue and its gotten beyond pharma. Ancillary services are where the money is now. Labs and diagnostics companies.
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:17 pm to Sl4m
In my experience, parents drove prescription utilization for kids far more than doctors did. "It's not working" (translated: I still have to parent) "Can we try something else?"
Doctor: I'm not sure.
Mom: I'll go find another pediatrician who will.
Doctor: Ok. I'll try something else.
Doctor: I'm not sure.
Mom: I'll go find another pediatrician who will.
Doctor: Ok. I'll try something else.
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:19 pm to GRTiger
quote:
I doubt there is even a correlation if you look at the numbers.
I imagine there may be some degree of correlation if we're limiting the analysis to mass murders. To murders in general I'm virtually certain there is no meaningful correlation.
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:20 pm to Robin Masters
I'd argue that the transparency in the pharma industry has largely done away with it in pharma.
I don't know much about the lab game, but I'm sure there's an opportunity to make money there. I don't really hate on that. As long as patients are getting needed services, I don't care much. I'm sure there's chances for over utilization, etc. But it all comes out in the wash in the end, IMO. That's what I keep telling myself anyway.
I don't know much about the lab game, but I'm sure there's an opportunity to make money there. I don't really hate on that. As long as patients are getting needed services, I don't care much. I'm sure there's chances for over utilization, etc. But it all comes out in the wash in the end, IMO. That's what I keep telling myself anyway.
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:20 pm to the808bass
You should see when some of those parents bring in their "point sheets" from their child's psychologist for us to fill out at work to determine whether the kid has a need for meds at school. I've had more than a few hand me the sheet back and say "that's not enough, they won't put him on anything with that".
ETA: I'd also make the argument that in poorer areas there's a real push to put these kids on meds and have them "diagnosed" so that they can draw disability checks on them as well.
ETA: I'd also make the argument that in poorer areas there's a real push to put these kids on meds and have them "diagnosed" so that they can draw disability checks on them as well.
This post was edited on 6/18/15 at 11:22 pm
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:21 pm to Robin Masters
quote:
LINK
Check the link...you are the fool.
What is your experience in the pharma/medical industry.
Are you basing your opinion on this BS propaganda?
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:22 pm to BluegrassBelle
I'm sure. There's a lot of awful parents out there. And you can find the enabling pediatrician by just asking the elementary school counselor,"What doctor do you hate the most?"
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:23 pm to the808bass
quote:
I'd argue that the transparency in the pharma industry has largely done away with it in pharma.
Maybe relative to what it once was but I think they've just gotten more savvy.
The guy who blew the whistle on on Kos used to get calls from docs out with their mistresses that needed to hide the restaurant and hotel bill so they would get the Kos cc number.
I don't think that type of shite happens but docs get compensation from pharma companies and if they quit writing scripts the gravy train would dry up.
This post was edited on 6/18/15 at 11:28 pm
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:27 pm to Robin Masters
quote:
Semantics. Call it whatever you want. The medical industry is so savvy now that no one outright gets cash for referrals. Its all bullshite "research" or $5k "speeches". You don't just walk in with a bag with a $ on it.
So, every prescriber gets $5k for speaking?
So, there are 970,000 MD's in the US.
5000 * 970000= 4,850,000,000
So, almost $5 billion in kickbacks alone just to get the MD's to prescribe. Sounds legit.
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:30 pm to ruzil
quote:
What is your experience in the pharma/medical industry.
Are you basing your opinion on this BS propaganda?
I am an owner and deal with docs everyday/all day.
The BS prop is directly from pharma themselves. They are telling you how much compensation they are giving docs. Don't blame me because you choose to ignore it.
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:31 pm to ruzil
quote:
So, every prescriber gets $5k for speaking?
You are obviously clueless about the industry.
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