re: Pope Francis orders US Bishops to delay their vote today on tackling sexual abuse

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Are Catholics happy with this clown as pope?

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Most Catholics don’t even know who the pope is.

How hard is it for you to understand that the Church does not put the Bible above all else and never has?

Sola scriptura is a doctrine founded by Martin Luther in the 16th century. The Catholic Church has Tradition and Scripture. And Scripture is part of Tradition. Like I said earlier, the early Church didn't have St. Paul's letters and the Gospels to reference because those things weren't even written until the late first century. Let alone when the Bible actually began to be compiled. The bible is absolutely inspired, but Jesus gave us the one Holy Catholic Church, inspired by the Holy Spirit, so that the Truth would prevail. And you see what happens with the thousands upon thousands of Protestant denominations that claim they hold exactly to the Bible.

Stop assuming sola scriptura, bible alone. There is no basis for it. Read this if you are really interested.

LINK

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Simple. I believe if you loosen restrictions on becoming a priest you’ll get a better applicant pool for a lack of a better term

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sure

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Perhaps less pedos?

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Based on what? You need to realize that these people enter the priesthood initially, probably as some sort of denial or escape from who they are. That will still be there.

The complaints that the Catholic church hasn't done enough to expose and help prosecute these events is fair and every Catholic I know wants that done. However, those who take the next step and suggest that a vow of celibacy leads to these behaviors are ridiculously simple minded.

As it relates to these events occurring the church is a victim. These are evil people who are infiltrating the church. The valid criticism of the church relates to the slowness of the response. As a catholic, I'm right there with you on that.

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Swagercopter, I read the link and am genuinely curious about this. You seem to be knowledgeable about the subject, so I have a couple of questions,
When did the church decide celibacy was best for priests? someone said earlier that came about 1000 years after the church started. If so, then what changed?



And my problem, as a protestant, is that it puts a lot of faith in a man (the pope). Haven't there been crooked Popes before? ive read that some have been removed, some pope positions have been purchased, and stuff like that, so how can they be believed to be infallible?

Once again, not trolling. Im genuinely curious. One of my best friends is catholic and we discuss this stuff sometimes, but im always afraid to offend him so I never push the questions as far as i'd like. Can you shed some light on this for me from a catholic perspective?

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I don't get offended at all. Celibacy is a tradition that came about, based on Paul's writings that celibacy was ideal, and the fact that Jesus was celibate. It absolutely could change (we casually call it a lower case "t" tradition). But I personally am opposed because I like not having to balance family with ministry. Ask any minister's family about living with a dad/husband who is always at church. Also, the most badass Catholic saints were celibate priests (St. John Vianney, St. Philip Neri, St. Ignatius of Loyola, etc.), and all of them would have been hindered by a family. The Eastern Church does allow married priests (although not bishops). And the Catholic Church does make exceptions.

I agree that it puts a lot of faith in a man. But the Catholic Church does not believe the Holy Spirit chooses the Pope, despite what the media and many Catholics will tell you. The Holy Spirit does guide the Pope, and the conclave (although voting cardinals can ignore that and politic - which I believe they have done often, and likely did with Francis). And it really is miraculous how the Church has survived such awful awful popes and corruption. It gives me more faith. Popes with secret families that didn't change or soften those doctrines. You see how quickly the Church of England broke off and devolved because of ONE bad king in Henry VIII.

The only thing the Church believes to be infallible is when the pope makes an infallible claim (which he literally has to do). This has happened only a few times in the Church. If Pope Francis tomorrow said that gay marriage was a Church teaching, and that was an infallible teaching, he would be labeled an anti-Pope immediately if he did not recant. The frustrating thing with Francis is that he's actually really good at implying change and causing confusion without committing what's called formal heresy (what he would get bumped for).

I guess the other thing I will say is that every church puts a lot of faith in one man, the pastor. And when people disagree, they break off and start another church. The Catholic Church has shown an ability to weather the storm that no other church has shown in my opinion. Shoot an email to SwaggerCopterTD@gmail.com if you have any other questions. But reply to this post and let me know if you do that because I never check that email unless I'm expecting an email.

Oh trust me, I've read up on it. And I will say again, Jesus never once sanctioned the Catholic Church. Ever. He didn't. To claim otherwise is an outright lie.

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Have fun in your Church that changes the truth on a whim to satisfy societal pressures.

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You're confused. I'm not a member of the Catholic Church.

He sanctioned one Church. He didn't say, that there will be a whole bunch of Churches that lack unity. So look to the one's who have a claim at being the true Church, and the list gets VERY small. You are acting like the Catholic Church is some Church that popped up in the 90s when we have the paper trail to Jesus.

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And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hell will not overcome it.

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Sound familiar? Too many "fundamentalists" ignore this. And it's not intellectually honest. I will go with the Church that has an answer to this, and that answer is that this is us, and Peter was our first Pope, and we can trace literally every single Pope between then and now.

Let us not lose sight that Archbishop Viganó, the former Papal Nuncio to the United States has been exhorting the U.S. Bishops to do the right thing and take a stand. After Francis pulled his stunt yesterday, Viganó came out this morning calling on the Bishops to do what they need to do for the good of their own souls and those of the flock they lead.

Basically, he told them to do whatever needs to be done despite Francis' resistance. Viganó is no lightweight, either.

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I would argue that Jesus preached very specifically about "churches" that are very similar to the modern day Catholic Church. He referred to them as Pharisees and Sadducees. If anyone wants to know Jesus' opinion, they can look up those words in the Bible and see how Jesus felt about them.

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Oh you mean the Jesus that kept the Sabbath Day holy and kept all of the Jewish feasts like Passover (the Last Supper occurred during this)? You are so clever.

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And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hell will not overcome it.

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Very familiar. How you jump from that scripture to Peter being the first Pope and Jesus sanctioning the Catholic Church is beyond me.

The church that Jesus was building was a church of Christianity. Not Catholicism. Nowhere is that claim anywhere in the Bible. It's only made by Catholics. They "made" Peter their Pope. He was no Pope. He was a disciple on fire for Jesus and Christianity. He had no affinity for any religion, despite Catholic claims.

You do realize, just because your religion claims Peter as their first Pope, doesn't make it true. You can scream it all day long. Peter was a Catholic Pope because Catholics decided to make up the title and call him a Pope. Did Jesus ever refer to him as Pope?

No.