re: Plane crash in Lafayette

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This article says “A witness with pilot experience indicated the plane's landing gear had been retracted.”

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eye witness accounts are the least credible

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Think I know the family

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Is she petite with giant knockers? If so, then it might be her.




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The problem facing the NTSB is that there is no "Black Box" flight data recording box, according to the news article linked in this thread.

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Serious question here. When I'm in the passenger cabin and I'm going through the same soup and all I see out of my window is grey, why don't I feel like I'm turning when the plane's flying straight and level?

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Doesn’t happen all the time. Generally, if you lean or tilt your head a certain direction for significant amount of time, probably 30 seconds or more, your inner ear recalibrated that as “level”. When you turn your head “upright” your inner ear interrupts that as a turn based on the recalibrated level.


Next time you are a passenger, tilt your head for a minute or so and then back up to level. I bet you’ll get the sensation.

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Doesn’t happen all the time. Generally, if you lean or tilt your head a certain direction for significant amount of time, probably 30 seconds or more, your inner ear recalibrated that as “level”. When you turn your head “upright” your inner ear interrupts that as a turn based on the recalibrated level.


Next time you are a passenger, tilt your head for a minute or so and then back up to level. I bet you’ll get the sensation.

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Thanks. Great answer to my question. I'll try it next time.

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I understand that. But by all means this was an experienced and good pilot. He either was those or he wasn’t. If he was, at under 1000 feet you don’t get disoriented that quickly if you are a good pilot.

Bad fuel? What are the chances bad fuel has no effect on taxi and take off but within a couple miles of flight? I understand the plane not being in full throttle til it takes off. But bad fuel at take off on a corporate jet used routinely seems unlikely.

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I am not speculating what happened. I simply said that getting disoriented at any phase of flight is possible. I have no idea what happened in this incident.

Fuel contamination is rare, yes, but it does happen. I am not familiar with this aircraft, airport, fuel services, etc. It is rarer for both engines to fail at the same time in flight.


The NTSB will answer all of these questions, in due time. So many things could have happened in that phase of flights. The final report will hopefully give the families closure on a horrific accident.

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why don't I feel like I'm turning when the plane's flying straight and level?

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Reference the JFK Jr. crash....I remember the NTSB pointing to spatial disorientation (Spatial-D) as the culprit in that crash.

Bout a couple years after that crash I happened to be in a conversation with an experienced pilot. Heck I didn't know anything about flying an airplane (still don't) but hey I like airplanes. But anyway I asked the guy about how this Spatial-D condition played a part in the Kennedy crash? I remember asking the pilot, "Okay so he encountered Spatial-D, but he had an altimeter......even though he wasn't Instrument Certified, couldn't he at least tell he wasn't losing altitude and try to reorientate his airplane to a distant landmark or shoreline?"

Long story short.....the pilot said Kennedy did encounter Spatial-D and entered into a circular loop and that loop got tighter and tighter......until he (and centrifugal force) literally flew the wings off that airplane. Furthermore, the weather conditions and visibility (no moon whatsoever) were such that the surface of the bay was like glass and reflected the sky and stars. Yikes! Spatial Disorientation.

THAT WAS WHEN I came to appreciate the tremendous skill required to fly an airplane........especially using IFR's.

Anyway JFK Jr was not instrument certified.......Mr. Biggs was.

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Depending on how much you fly commercially, I bet you have experienced spatial d at some point and didn’t realize it. To you, the airplane was just making what you thought was a turn.

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Very good point. I'd just assume the pilot was turning the plane.

ETA: I guess I was expecting it to be something more intense, like vertigo.

A turbine will run on avgas. It's not good for the engines and there are maintenance limitations and you'll end up ruining it eventually but it's not lethal. A piston engine will not run on Jet A, period. As for water contamination I assure you the FBO operator has daily fuel sump samples, as well as documentation as to who sumped the truck,when the filters were changed, when and where the truck got its load from and where that fuel came from. The NTSB already has all that and has sampled the truck and the fuel farm. But it's not out of the realm of possibility.

Agreed.I help run my companies fuel farms and safety program just letting the gen pop know what's involved with fuel handling and safety.