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Started By
Message
re: NYC bodega owner: "Bring back stop-and-frisk"
Posted on 5/12/22 at 9:52 am to lsupride87
Posted on 5/12/22 at 9:52 am to lsupride87
quote:
My entire point is people who call themselves “conservatives”, love to completely go against those actual values as long as it supports something they personally believe in.
Supporting stop and frisk 100% goes against basic conservatism.
It may go against your idea of what you think conservatism is in theory, but in practice, it's a widely endorsed practice, especially in times where the basic rule of law has almost completely eroded.
2
Posted on 5/12/22 at 9:54 am to upgrayedd
I’m sorry, I can’t support the basic hypocrisy of being angered of the thought of gun control due to constitutional rights while being in support of stop and frisk
It’s as laughable as the liberal hypocrisy of “my body my choice” with abortion while fighting for vaccine mandates
It’s as laughable as the liberal hypocrisy of “my body my choice” with abortion while fighting for vaccine mandates
Posted on 5/12/22 at 9:55 am to Pettifogger
quote:
If you mean due process, sure, if you mean "maintaining generalized law and order" then not really.
I would prefer a country that protects citizens from wrongdoers and uses the measures already in place to do so. But if that's not happening, I'm not going to sit around and get rustled if decent people step up to protect people and businesses because some view it as "vigilantism."
We all would. By vigilantism I mean “the act of enforcement, investigation or punishment of perceived offenses without legal authority”, not what many perceive as vigilantism. The punishment portion is the part I find most troubling there.
Protection of self, property and community from direct threats isn't vigilantism. I think we are probably in agreement, I just read your post as suggesting something different. My apologies.
Posted on 5/12/22 at 9:55 am to upgrayedd
The alternative is to do nothing. The DAs are now owned by interest groups actively promoting lawlessness. Many mayors as well.
It would be great to recalibrate and have DAs actually do broken mirror prosecuting, and prosecute everything to the full extent of the law, and actually have Judges that were willing to give sentences that are deserved.
Give the police more funding to better train and increase force.
The pendulum usually swings when things go to far, and they have gone WAY too far.
It would be great to recalibrate and have DAs actually do broken mirror prosecuting, and prosecute everything to the full extent of the law, and actually have Judges that were willing to give sentences that are deserved.
Give the police more funding to better train and increase force.
The pendulum usually swings when things go to far, and they have gone WAY too far.
Posted on 5/12/22 at 9:56 am to lsupride87
quote:
It shares that core belief with libertarians.
Ok. Let’s do this. Tell us how you think libertarians and conservatives are different.
Posted on 5/12/22 at 9:56 am to lsupride87
quote:
I’m sorry, I can’t support the basic hypocrisy of being angered of the thought of gun control due to constitutional rights while being in support of stop and frisk
It’s as laughable as the liberal hypocrisy of “my body my choice” with abortion while fighting for vaccine mandates
We get it. You're above the fray. You don't have to keep reminding us lowly mongoloids
Posted on 5/12/22 at 9:58 am to upgrayedd
I’m not above the fray, I just think it’s funny for people to act like they are t
I fully supported the smoking ban in restaurants, knowing full well how hypocritical that is. But just own it, don’t try and doing word gymnastics about how you aren’t being a huge hypocrite
I fully supported the smoking ban in restaurants, knowing full well how hypocritical that is. But just own it, don’t try and doing word gymnastics about how you aren’t being a huge hypocrite
Posted on 5/12/22 at 10:06 am to lsupride87
quote:
I fully supported the smoking ban in restaurants, knowing full well how hypocritical that is.
Same I recognize the hypocrisy, just like I recognize some level of hypocrisy in S&F, which I generally think works very well when used at times. It can't be used indefinitely but I could see times of huge need it being used.
The world isn't perfect. It isn't black and white, it is shades of grey. Sometimes you have to compromise values on a limited scale.
Posted on 5/12/22 at 10:08 am to Fun Bunch
quote:I understand, but S&F is a huge slide of the scale. Allowing that absolutely allows weaponization of police force agaisnt citizens
Same I recognize the hypocrisy, just like I recognize some level of hypocrisy in S&F, which I generally think works very well when used at times. It can't be used indefinitely but I could see times of huge need it being used. The world isn't perfect. It isn't black and white, it is shades of grey. Sometimes you have to compromise values on a limited scale.
I mean imagine S&F in the Dems hands. It’s legit terrifying thought to me
Posted on 5/12/22 at 10:09 am to lsupride87
Libertarians are cute
Must be nice living in pretend world while sipping on your fourth IPA
Must be nice living in pretend world while sipping on your fourth IPA
Posted on 5/12/22 at 10:09 am to lsupride87
quote:
You are hilarious to watch in threads If I started a conversation on taking away gun rights, you would see a huge push back from people who call themselves conservative because the argument would be it takes away their constitutional rights When it comes to stop and frisk, you see support from people who call themselves conservatives regardless of the fact it takes away one of the most basic constitutional rights What would you call it when a group of people uses the same supposed ideals in completely different manner only people it supports what they personally want?
Your mistake is trying to fit everyone on this board into one box.
You act as if:
This board supports gun rights… therefore this board is conservative… therefore this board shouldn’t support stop and frisk.
Someone can be conservative on one topic, liberal on another, and libertarian on something else.
Stop trying to put everyone in one box
Posted on 5/12/22 at 10:10 am to yaboidarrell
(no message)
This post was edited on 5/13/22 at 9:05 am
Posted on 5/12/22 at 10:11 am to WaWaWeeWa
quote:I agree
You act as if: This board supports gun rights… therefore this board is conservative… therefore this board shouldn’t support stop and frisk. Someone can be conservative on one topic, liberal on another, and libertarian on something else. Stop trying to put everyone in one box
But if your reasoning for supporting gun rights is “I believe in the rights afforded by the constitution”, turning around and supporting S&F is a huge leap
Posted on 5/12/22 at 10:11 am to lsupride87
quote:
I understand, but S&F is a huge slide of the scale.
I honestly don't think it is. I've never seen it to be THAT big a deal on a limited scale, while recognizing that it could be weaponized or go way over the line.
Posted on 5/12/22 at 10:18 am to lsupride87
quote:
But if your reasoning for supporting gun rights is “I believe in the rights afforded by the constitution”, turning around and supporting S&F is a huge leap
It’s not because people are hypocritical. It’s because In a conservative worldview part of the social contract is for government to provide BASIC things such as security. And I mean local governments here.
So when government fails to support basic services you see people support extreme ideas they normally wouldn’t because they don’t see any other option. Conservative, liberal, etc. Worldviews are only applicable in situations where the government is supplying the basic framework of a functioning society.
Posted on 5/12/22 at 10:20 am to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
It’s not because people are hypocritical. It’s because In a conservative worldview part of the social contract is for government to provide BASIC things such as security. And I mean local governments here.
So when government fails to support basic services you see people support extreme ideas they normally wouldn’t because they don’t see any other option. Conservative, liberal, etc. Worldviews are only applicable in situations where the government is supplying the basic framework of a functioning society.
Honestly, very good points.
Posted on 5/12/22 at 10:23 am to WaWaWeeWa
quote:If the govt can’t or refuses to provide basic services like arresting and charging criminals for
So when government fails to support basic services
Crimes actually committed, how in the world can anyone think trusting those same govt officials with running stop and frisk? Wouldn’t the a trial thought be they will use that for their personal gain/corruption as well, infringing even more on the law abiding citizen?
If stop and frisk was implemented in these liberal infested cities, it would be a an absolute arm of the Soros machine
This post was edited on 5/12/22 at 10:25 am
Posted on 5/12/22 at 10:26 am to lsupride87
quote:
Crimes actually committed, how in the world can anyone think trusting those same govt officials with running stop and frisk?
If you are asking how some people could support S&F it’s probably because they witnessed it clean up the biggest city in America very quickly.
It’s hard to argue against results like that. That’s not an argument from a constitutional perspective, it’s just probably how the average person thinks about it.
Posted on 5/12/22 at 10:27 am to lsupride87
quote:
I’m sorry, I can’t support the basic hypocrisy of being angered of the thought of gun control due to constitutional rights while being in support of stop and frisk
The government abdicates it's basic duties (arresting, holding and prosecuting criminals), tramples individual rights (restricting gun rights in NYC) and the answer is "stop and frisk"..
Strange that the answer is never the government performing its basic functions while stopping overreaches.
The shite they do with our tax dollars while claiming they can't afford to maintain roads or enforce the law should turn our stomachs, but they redistrubute just enough to keep the masses from revolting.
This post was edited on 5/12/22 at 7:32 pm
Posted on 5/12/22 at 10:29 am to WaWaWeeWa
quote:True, but it wasn’t under an infested liberal regime
If you are asking how some people could support S&F it’s probably because they witnessed it clean up the biggest city in America very quickly.
Giving stop and frisk to a liberal city is a nightmare waiting to happen. And I don’t see NYC, San Fran, Portland, Nola, etc etc getting rid of being liberal run for an extremely long time
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