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Posted on 6/29/17 at 11:14 pm to The Baker
I approve of your methodology and congratulate you on your creativity. Carry on and don't think twice. There are no ethical issues here to worry about. Maybe consider getting a second full time job?
Posted on 6/29/17 at 11:18 pm to Nawlens Gator
quote:
There are no ethical issues here to worry about
Ehh, we need more information to make such an absolute statement.
Posted on 6/29/17 at 11:19 pm to The Baker
quote:
I think he should do 2 things...
1) start applying for other jobs
2) approach his employer with the automated system... tactfully so he gets a raise and an opportunity to automate other things.
This.
I would hope anyone preaching the ethical high ground here tracks all of their time, doesn't waste ANY moment of any day, you know, this:
LINK
The only unethical part is that the company isn't given an option to respond or make a choice in the matter. Most likely, they would also do the unethical thing, fire him and use the program, regardless of it saving them money. I would assume the same outcome if he actually revealed what he did. I assume this is a for profit company with the motive of more profit, more efficiency, cutting whatever workers they need to do it. They owe nothing to their employees outside of their general work agreement, which they are free to terminate at any time for plenty of different reasons.
It's a bad situation with an obviously distrustful employee and a company without a choice. But I'm not sure he's being completely unethical.
Posted on 6/29/17 at 11:22 pm to The Baker
If some slick software co. showed up at his workplace and pitched a similar product to what he created, how fast would they dump his job title off the company rolls. Keep rolling and don't miss a wink of sleep.
Posted on 6/29/17 at 11:25 pm to mulletproof
quote:
If some slick software co. showed up at his workplace and pitched a similar product to what he created, how fast would they dump his job title off the company rolls. Keep rolling and don't miss a wink of sleep.
This. Loyalty and honesty will get you nothing but heartache. They are paying you for results. If they are smart they already realize your job could be automated and will be looking to do so in the future.
If not then you can ride that gravy train until retirement. I'd be prepared to find a new job eventually. Any full-time job that can be automated and done in 10 minutes isn't very secure.
Posted on 6/29/17 at 11:26 pm to Peazey
Agree that the ethical argument comes into play because of the deceit. However, I do put some onus on management. They clearly aren't concerned enough to be communicating regularly and are only focused on the results.
Posted on 6/29/17 at 11:32 pm to The Baker
There may be some IP issues with this, but it seems like a this fella oughta package his program and sell it to his employer. Of course, if he went this route he'd have to be ok with terminating his current relationship with the company.
Posted on 6/29/17 at 11:32 pm to The Baker
frick the company. They'd let his arse go in a heartbeat, ethics be damned.
He's getting paid for results and he's producing results. EOS
He's getting paid for results and he's producing results. EOS
Posted on 6/29/17 at 11:35 pm to Mufassa
A good company would recognize the innovation and reward the guy if he brought it up to them.
Posted on 6/29/17 at 11:59 pm to Masterag
quote:
He's getting paid for results and he's producing results. EOS
If a mechanic billed you for 4 hours and you found out he slept for 3.5 hours because the problem was easily fixed, your "paid for results" line would be quickly forgotten.
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:02 am to slackster
Sort of different when you're billed specifically and separately for labor..
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:12 am to Mr. Hangover
quote:
Sort of different when you're billed specifically and separately for labor..
You're billed for the labor because it will take x hours to achieve y result. This guy is paid for x hours per week because his company believes that's what it takes to produce y results. This guy found a way to achieve y results in x/40 hours, but still clocks in for x hours each week.
It goes back to my original point. If he's salaried, I see no issue. They don't care if he takes 60 hours or 6 hours per week to get it done, as long as it gets done. You're paying for the results only.
If he's hourly, I don't buy the results argument, and I doubt many on here would if they were footing the bill as well.
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:19 am to The Baker
Keep doing it. Who cares? Now if you get caught, you better have a good story on hand to fend yourself.
On the other hand, you only realize what you're doing is "wrong" and pointing it out. There a lot of people in today's "business" world who get paid 40 hours a week and realistically only do about half of that working.
For example, i get paid 160 hours a month x base hourly rate. I'm a CRNA so I realistically only do about 12-15 hours of work a week so max 60 hours of actually working but i still get paid for 160 hours. Is that unethical? No. Just part of my circumstance.
On the other hand, you only realize what you're doing is "wrong" and pointing it out. There a lot of people in today's "business" world who get paid 40 hours a week and realistically only do about half of that working.
For example, i get paid 160 hours a month x base hourly rate. I'm a CRNA so I realistically only do about 12-15 hours of work a week so max 60 hours of actually working but i still get paid for 160 hours. Is that unethical? No. Just part of my circumstance.
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:19 am to GRTiger
The legacy system holds all of their clients data. I would assume that is more valuable than actually recreating the entire system. If the end product is making the company profit, I as an owner wouldn't care if it took two people to run it. I would value that data, and wouldn't want anything to happen to it. He is leaving out some key details.
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:22 am to The Baker
I would ride that train long as I could. Long as they are happy who cares if it takes you 10 minutes or 40 hours a week.
My boss could care less how many hours I do or don't work a week as long as I'm blowing my sales quota up and making him money. I play around all the time but I'm a good earner for my employer.
My boss could care less how many hours I do or don't work a week as long as I'm blowing my sales quota up and making him money. I play around all the time but I'm a good earner for my employer.
This post was edited on 6/30/17 at 12:25 am
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:22 am to slackster
quote:
If a mechanic billed you for 4 hours and you found out he slept for 3.5 hours because the problem was easily fixed, your "paid for results" line would be quickly forgotten.
Mechanics have a book that tells them exactly how long a given repair should take and that's exactly how much time they charge. They all charge the book time for every repair whether it takes that long or not.
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:23 am to The Baker
I automate a large portion of my work to sql, as well
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:26 am to Merck
quote:
Mechanics have a book that tells them exactly how long a given repair should take and that's exactly how much time they charge. They all charge the book time for every repair whether it takes that long or not.
, blowing up my example, but you get the gist. Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:28 am to Masterag
You can make assumptions and create a scenario that vilifies the company and paints yourself as a heroic victim who would certainly be thrown out into the cold if you were honest, but that won't change the fact that you are knowingly, blatantly deceiving the people who hired you. It's not even arguable that it's not unethical. The company hired you to be as efficient as possible. They own the efficiency you brought to that specific task as an employee. And rather than being transparent and using it to raise your value, your stature and your future, you hide it and count the days until you are discovered, likely sending your career path in the wrong direction. It's a coward's game. You must assume that this is your one and only, lucky idea so you lie and ride it until it all falls apart. All the while doubting yourself. Great plan. Own it. Like a boss. I just crushed your first problem, what's next? Build your reputation, get more experience, raise your earning potential and sleep well at night.
This post was edited on 6/30/17 at 12:33 am
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