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re: Nate silver: the slowdown in CV19 cases in NOLA is unlike anything we have seen elsewhere

Posted on 4/13/20 at 1:55 pm to
Posted by BenDover78
Member since Mar 2020
305 posts
Posted on 4/13/20 at 1:55 pm to
Nate Silver is an absolute hack who cries himself to sleep every night that Hillary lost the 2016 election. 538 should have never been published again after his performance during that cycle
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
29134 posts
Posted on 4/13/20 at 1:57 pm to
quote:

He literally posted evidence to my point

While calling you a fricking idiot
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
29134 posts
Posted on 4/13/20 at 1:58 pm to
quote:

Nate Silver is an absolute hack who cries himself to sleep every night that Hillary lost the 2016 election.
quote:

538 should have never been published again after his performance during that cycle
538's probabilities were closer than anyone else's were.
Posted by Antonio Moss
The South
Member since Mar 2006
49580 posts
Posted on 4/13/20 at 1:59 pm to
quote:

Nate Silver is an absolute hack who cries himself to sleep every night that Hillary lost the 2016 election


Nate Silver was running projections that showed a significant chance that Trump would win the election several days out and was sounding the alarm.

MSNBC and CNN anchors quite literally laughed at him

He was right.

They were wrong.
Posted by CptRusty
Basket of Deplorables
Member since Aug 2011
11740 posts
Posted on 4/13/20 at 2:00 pm to
quote:

So is 200 the high end?


You just said 250 was the LOW end



Again, from the link I posted:

quote:

The White House coronavirus response coordinator said Monday that she is "very worried about every city in the United States" and projects 100,000 to 200,000 American deaths as a best case scenario.


Best case scenario in this context I take to mean "low end of predicted deaths"
Posted by JudgeHolden
Gila River
Member since Jan 2008
18578 posts
Posted on 4/13/20 at 2:01 pm to
quote:

Nate Silver was running projections that showed a significant chance that Trump would win the election several days out and was sounding the alarm.


I’d like to see those. This may be the Mandela effect, but I remember 538 showing Hilary as the overwhelming favorite deep into election night.

Not saying you are wrong. I’m just saying that is what my fragile memory banks have stored. Maybe he was talking out of both sides of his mouth.
Posted by moneyg
Member since Jun 2006
63693 posts
Posted on 4/13/20 at 2:02 pm to
quote:

180,000 deaths on the top range. I don't think we get there, obviously, but it isn't like that number is crazy out-of-the question.



I think what a lot of people are wondering (and I think it's an absolutely reasonable question) is that if the initial estimates of deaths with mitigation were much, much higher than reality with mitigation...that it's fair to question the original estimates of deaths without mitigation to the same degree.

The logic goes like this (Note: I don't the actually values. Please correct me). What was the estimate of deaths ORIGINALLY to justify the lockdown (2.2M). What was the estimate of deaths ORIGINALLY with social distance mitigation in place (180k).

If hypothetically, the United States ends up with 40k deaths, is it fair to assume that the assumption that was made to justify the shutdown was HUGELY off the mark? Were they so off the mark, that we wouldn't have made the same decision with more accurate estimates? If so, given that we are talking TRILLIONS in economic damage, whose head should roll?
Posted by CptRusty
Basket of Deplorables
Member since Aug 2011
11740 posts
Posted on 4/13/20 at 2:04 pm to
quote:

The logic goes like this (Note: I don't the actually values. Please correct me). What was the estimate of deaths ORIGINALLY to justify the lockdown (2.2M). What was the estimate of deaths ORIGINALLY with social distance mitigation in place (180k).

If hypothetically, the United States ends up with 40k deaths, is it fair to assume that the assumption that was made to justify the shutdown was HUGELY off the mark? Were they so off the mark, that we wouldn't have made the same decision with more accurate estimates? If so, given that we are talking TRILLIONS in economic damage, whose head should roll?


yep
Posted by Antonio Moss
The South
Member since Mar 2006
49580 posts
Posted on 4/13/20 at 2:04 pm to
quote:

This may be the Mandela effect, but I remember 538 showing Hilary as the overwhelming favorite deep into election night.

Not saying you are wrong. I’m just saying that is what my fragile memory banks have stored. Maybe he was talking out of both sides of his mouth.


She was still the favorite but, as I recall, about three days before the election Silver started reporting that his adjusted models were moving to a more even election that predicted earlier and that some of his runs had Trump winning. He said the majority still had Hilary but the idea that media was touting - that Trump has no chance - was false and actually trending in the other direction.
Posted by moneyg
Member since Jun 2006
63693 posts
Posted on 4/13/20 at 2:05 pm to
quote:

The White House has not based any action on the Imperial College Model.

It has used the IMHE model - along with various other models. The IMHE model is the model that accounts for social restrictions. That model's first run had an upper range of 180,000 and a median projection of 82,000 deaths.



Obviously, the White House's action was based on some model with no social restrictions in place. What model was that if not the Imperial Model?
Posted by jchamil
Member since Nov 2009
19921 posts
Posted on 4/13/20 at 2:05 pm to
quote:

Are you really suggesting that health departments all around the country and the world are basically completely staffed by liars and people that don't give a frick about ethics or integrity?


Not really. I'm asking if you think that the numbers reported could be a little inflated. The staffs wouldn't have to be completely full of liars. You realize there is financial incentive to inflate the numbers right?
Posted by Antonio Moss
The South
Member since Mar 2006
49580 posts
Posted on 4/13/20 at 2:06 pm to
quote:

If hypothetically, the United States ends up with 40k deaths, is it fair to assume that the assumption that was made to justify the shutdown was HUGELY off the mark? Were they so off the mark, that we wouldn't have made the same decision with more accurate estimates?


I'm not sure there would be anyway to prove that given that we engaged in action that we can not retroactively undo.

That said, remember that 2.2 million was the extreme upper range., not the median projection.
Posted by moneyg
Member since Jun 2006
63693 posts
Posted on 4/13/20 at 2:10 pm to
quote:

I'm not sure there would be anyway to prove that given that we engaged in action that we can not retroactively undo.



Proven? Nothing can be proven. You can't prove that social distancing has helped. But, we logically think it can.

quote:

That said, remember that 2.2 million was the extreme upper range., not the median projection.



What was the median projection? And, was that number used to justify the shutdown?
Posted by Antonio Moss
The South
Member since Mar 2006
49580 posts
Posted on 4/13/20 at 2:10 pm to
quote:

Best case scenario in this context I take to mean "low end of predicted deaths"



Like I said to Scruffy, you need to start getting your news from sources other than cable and network. Look at this shite:

quote:

The White House coronavirus response coordinator said Monday that she is "very worried about every city in the United States" and projects 100,000 to 200,000 American deaths as a best case scenario.


That's not a quote. That is a journalist summary. And I would agree with you if just stopped there than this seems to mean lower limit, EXCEPT:

quote:

Birx said the projections by Dr. Anthony Fauci that U.S. deaths could range from 1.6 million to 2.2 million is a worst case scenario if the country did "nothing" to contain the outbreak, but said even "if we do things almost perfectly," she still predicts up to 200,000 U.S. deaths.


Same article, three paragraphs down - now citing it as worst case under restriction model.

Journalists are terrible.


Posted by RollTide1987
Baltimore, MD
Member since Nov 2009
71735 posts
Posted on 4/13/20 at 2:11 pm to
quote:

The White House has not based any action on the Imperial College Model.


Oh, really?

quote:

Behind the Virus Report That Jarred the U.S. and the U.K. to Action

It wasn’t so much the numbers themselves, frightening though they were, as who reported them: Imperial College London.

LONDON — When Boris Johnson was campaigning for Britain to leave the European Union in 2016 — a path that many experts warned would end in disaster for the country — one of his close allies, Michael Gove, famously declared that “people in this country have had enough of experts.”

Now, Mr. Gove and Mr. Johnson are leading the British government as it confronts the calamity of the coronavirus, and Mr. Johnson, now the prime minister, insists the process is being guided by experts. The trouble is, those experts can often disagree with each other or change their minds about the right course of action.

That messy back-and-forth has been on vivid display this week with the publication of a startling new report on the virus from a team at Imperial College in London. The report, which warned that an uncontrolled spread of the disease could cause as many as 510,000 deaths in Britain, triggered a sudden shift in the government’s comparatively relaxed response to the virus.

American officials said the report, which projected up to 2.2 million deaths in the United States from such a spread, also influenced the White House to strengthen its measures to isolate members of the public.


The New York Times - March 17, 2020
Posted by Antonio Moss
The South
Member since Mar 2006
49580 posts
Posted on 4/13/20 at 2:11 pm to
quote:

Obviously, the White House's action was based on some model with no social restrictions in place.


Why is that obvious?
Posted by Oilfieldbiology
Member since Nov 2016
42786 posts
Posted on 4/13/20 at 2:12 pm to
quote:

Birx said the projections by Dr. Anthony Fauci that U.S. deaths could range from 1.6 million to 2.2 million is a worst case scenario if the country did "nothing" to contain the outbreak, but said even "if we do things almost perfectly," she still predicts up to 200,000 U.S. deaths.


Here
Posted by Capt ST
High Plains
Member since Aug 2011
13719 posts
Posted on 4/13/20 at 2:13 pm to
quote:

The real stats will be to look at deaths per month this year compared to last year, and I’d bet a lot of money there won’t be a significant difference



Not with the sharp declines in deaths due to flu, heart attacks and strokes. They've almost stopped happening for some reason.
Posted by Oilfieldbiology
Member since Nov 2016
42786 posts
Posted on 4/13/20 at 2:13 pm to
Can you not read? They predicted 200,000 if we do everything perfectly. That sounds like it’s a low end projection.
Posted by dgnx6
Member since Feb 2006
91714 posts
Posted on 4/13/20 at 2:13 pm to
It's because it came through during mardis gras. Everyone that was going to die from it died.

Obviously there are some vulnerables still out there, but these people probably weren't going to mass gatherings to begin with.
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