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Message
re: Major WWII shipwreck discovered: Japanese battleship sunk by US found
Posted on 2/8/19 at 3:00 pm to Ace Midnight
Posted on 2/8/19 at 3:00 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
The aircraft was the dominant capital ship by the mid-30s but the old admirals of all navies wouldn't accept that.
They wanted battleships instead of aircraft carriers. Billy Mitchell proved them wrong and was demoted and court martialed for his efforts.
1
Posted on 2/8/19 at 3:09 pm to Tchefuncte Tiger
Hiei was a pre-Jutland design, modernized in the 1920's-30's...
actually more of a battle cruiser than a battleship...
actually more of a battle cruiser than a battleship...
Posted on 2/8/19 at 3:13 pm to vl100butch
quote:
pre-Jutland design
Many of the battleships were pre-Jutland due to the Washington Naval Treaty.
Posted on 2/8/19 at 3:39 pm to ItTakesAThief
quote:
Planes could sink battleships.
Battleships were made for surface warfare.
When aerial bombardment was created, battleships were vulnerable and obsolete.
The Iowa class were designed to keep up with the aircraft carriers and to fight with air cover. They were not obsolete because somebody had to protect the carriers.
Posted on 2/8/19 at 3:48 pm to Cump11b
My, my, how the tables have turned.
The sushi got to eat the Japanese.
The sushi got to eat the Japanese.
Posted on 2/8/19 at 3:52 pm to Spaceman Spiff
quote:
Now which is more suited to softening up invasion sites?
Your point is well made... While Air Power was in fact a major factor in Naval Combat, the role of battleships to prepare the landing zone was (and can still be..) very effective.
Posted on 2/8/19 at 3:59 pm to Ace Midnight
Japan ran out of navel planes. During the Philippine landing operation, Japan used they carriers to bait Nimitz to pulling his carriers from protecting the landing. Japan’s battleships snuck up to our Jeep carriers (CVE) and some DDs and sunk them all they then retreated. Had they persued we would have had BB on BB battle.
And our BBs were loaded with HE rounds for landing support and not AP rounds for navel warfare.
And our BBs were loaded with HE rounds for landing support and not AP rounds for navel warfare.
Posted on 2/8/19 at 4:05 pm to WeeWee
Iowa class was designed to be a huge anti air platform as it was loaded with 5in guns and 30/50 cal guns. Pre Essex carriers carried less then 70-80 combat planes (fighter/bombers/torpedo planes)the Essex class close to 90-95 combat planes.
Even after losing 4 CVs in midway battle, had japan continued on to midway we couldn’t stop them. We were basically out of planes from both land and sea.
Even after losing 4 CVs in midway battle, had japan continued on to midway we couldn’t stop them. We were basically out of planes from both land and sea.
Posted on 2/8/19 at 4:09 pm to Cump11b
Kicked their arse
Posted on 2/8/19 at 4:13 pm to SEClint
Awesome find....
just an FYI speaking of finding ships on the ocean floor.. It would be cool to find the Oklahoma. It's remains were being towed from Oahu to San Francisco and was sunk in a storm in '47.. Location is unknown.
just an FYI speaking of finding ships on the ocean floor.. It would be cool to find the Oklahoma. It's remains were being towed from Oahu to San Francisco and was sunk in a storm in '47.. Location is unknown.
Posted on 2/8/19 at 4:16 pm to WWII Collector
quote:
It would be cool to find the Oklahoma
I agree.
Posted on 2/8/19 at 4:55 pm to alphaandomega
quote:
Then its a great thing we decommissioned all our carriers.
thing is, first of all, nobody's going to get close to our carriers, and we need a strike force ready and in proximity to all potential assholes, no matter where they may be
Posted on 2/8/19 at 5:10 pm to tigeraddict
Your opinions concerning naval operations in WWII would carry more weight if you would spell naval correctly. Just a heads up.
Posted on 2/8/19 at 7:39 pm to Kcrad
I saw that after I posted. On mobile and didn’t feel like changing it. But not a good speller to begin with....
Posted on 2/8/19 at 7:49 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
The aircraft was the dominant capital ship by the mid-30s but the old admirals of all navies wouldn't accept that.
You have to remember that the naval brass of most major navies were schooled in the warfare principles of Alfred Thayer Mahan, whose 1890 bestseller - The Influence of Sea Power Upon History, 1660-1793 - was the gold standard for strategic naval thinking up into World War II. Mahan's doctrines revolved around a single decisive naval engagement where the battleship took center stage.
The Japanese navy especially swore by Mahan's doctrines and even offered him a teaching position at their naval war college. They credited Mahan's principles for their brilliant victory at the Battle of Tsushima Straits at the climax of the Russo-Japanese War of 1905. Other great navies such as the Royal Navy of Great Britain and even our own U.S. Navy all taught their officers to live and die by Mahanian dogmas.
The power of the aircraft and the aircraft carrier wasn't taken seriously until Japanese carrier-based airplanes sank the HMS Prince of Wales and the HMS Repulse at the Naval Battle of Malaya (December 10, 1941). You didn't start to see more carrier-centric doctrines emerge until after the Battle of the Coral Sea and the Battle of Midway in 1942.
This post was edited on 2/8/19 at 7:53 pm
Posted on 2/8/19 at 7:58 pm to RollTide1987
My FIL was on the USS Mississippi during WWII. It has the distinction of firing the last BB vs BB main battery gunfire in history.
Posted on 2/8/19 at 8:50 pm to CarrolltonTiger
quote:
...surface ship...
There are two types of boats: targets and submarines.
Posted on 2/9/19 at 7:56 am to Spaceman Spiff
quote:
Now which is more suited to softening up invasion sites?
Strike aircraft.
You don't need 16" guns for naval prep - that's costly and overkill. 8" and 5" guns are just fine, if accurate as substitutes for field artillery. The carrier group would have plenty of cruisers and destroyers with 8" and 5" guns for those tasks.
Plus strike aircraft that can service almost any target dozens of miles away.
This post was edited on 2/9/19 at 7:57 am
Posted on 2/9/19 at 8:05 am to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
My FIL was on the USS Mississippi during WWII. It has the distinction of firing the last BB vs BB main battery gunfire in history.
The father of one of my college roommates was on the Mississippi in WWII.
Posted on 2/9/19 at 8:09 am to Ryan3232
quote:
Especially a ship like the titanic
That was a movie dummy
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