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Started By
Message
Lumber Prices Are Falling Fast, Turning Hoarders Into Sellers
Posted on 6/17/21 at 7:14 am
Posted on 6/17/21 at 7:14 am
quote:
Lumber prices traded below $1,000 per thousand board feet for the first time since March.
Lumber futures are now down roughly 40% from a record high set on May 10.
Prices are still up 175% over the past year, and experts say they could remain elevated from historic norms.
quote:
Part of the reason for lumber's recent skid is expanding supply. US lumber production has jumped 5% over the past 12 months with another increase of 5% on the way, according to Domain Timber Advisors LLC, a subsidiary of Domain Capital Group, per Bloomberg.
Business Insider
quote:
Economists and investors have wondered if sky-high prices for wood products would doom the booming housing market. Builders raised home prices and many stopped selling houses before the studs were installed, lest they misjudge costs and sell too cheaply. Lumber became central to the inflation debate: whether a period of runaway inflation was afoot or high prices were temporary shocks that would ease as the economy moved further from lockdown.
The rapid decline suggests a bubble that has burst and the question is how low lumber prices will fall. Even after tumbling, lumber futures remain nearly three times what is typical for this time of year. Lumber producers and traders expect that prices will remain relatively high due to the strong housing market, but that the supply bottlenecks and frenzied buying that characterized the economy’s reopening and sent prices to multiples of the old all-time highs are winding down.
During the run-up, wood was hoarded by builders, retailers and others worried about running out of material during a construction season set into overdrive by low mortgage rates and federal stimulus payments.
“Everyone was buying more than they needed,” said Mike Wisnefski, a former lumber trader and chief executive of online marketplace MaterialsXchange. “There was this fear of lack of availability.”
Now the market is being flooded by what Mr. Wisnefski calls shadow inventory as businesses that are normally big buyers, such as home builders and companies that prefabricate the trusses that hold up roofs and floors, sell from their own stockpiles.
WSJ
The problem was always a lack of production at the mills or not enough mills online as we have a glut of timber available. The USA lost something like 100 mills since the great recession. Of course, the mills we do have left were either shut down, had reduced production, and some can't find workers now. Canada, the largest exporter of lumber to the USA, had very draconian Covid shutdowns as well.
Large volume housing developers hoarding didn't help the average consumer. Hopefully, this bites them in the arse a little.
I have seen some people suggest when lumber prices go up they never come back down and that just isn't true. I remember years ago OSB reached around $16 per sheet which was up from $5, framing studs were $4 up from around $1.70, copper was $400 for a 1000' roll of 12-2 up from $120, etc and those prices eventually leveled back off. Will that happen again? Who knows as long as the Fed keeps rates artificially low helping to drive demand.
FWIW, OSB was $8'ish per sheet at the start of 2020 and studs were around $2.33 so in 10-12 years lumber hadn't really outpaced normal inflation rates prior to this spike.
Posted on 6/17/21 at 7:19 am to stout
Good. I can finally build my deck
Posted on 6/17/21 at 7:20 am to stout
And all these recent dumbarses that paid thousands more for their houses to be built due to lumber cost and gonna be fricked if they ever want to resell
Posted on 6/17/21 at 7:23 am to Fat and Happy
quote:
And all these recent dumbarses that paid thousands more for their houses to be built due to lumber cost and gonna be fricked if they ever want to resell
Again, that all depends on how long the Fed keeps rates low and the Fed has dug itself a hole. There is no great outcome for us any way you slice it.
Posted on 6/17/21 at 7:26 am to stout
Even if it holds, consumers won't see this for a while.
Posted on 6/17/21 at 7:33 am to h0bnail
quote:
Even if it holds, consumers won't see this for a while.
I wonder how long that will be. Years? Months?
Posted on 6/17/21 at 7:34 am to Bronson2017
quote:
I wonder how long that will be. Years? Months?
The prediction initially was consumers will start to see some relief around October but no idea how much obviously.
Posted on 6/17/21 at 7:36 am to stout
I have a few 2x4s in my garage if anyone wants to make me an offer. Mint condition.
Posted on 6/17/21 at 7:41 am to The Mick
quote:I have like hundreds in my garage.
I have a few 2x4s in my garage if anyone wants to make me an offer. Mint condition.
I don’t think it would be particularly wise for me to part with any of them.
Mine are in used condition, full disclosure.
Posted on 6/17/21 at 7:41 am to stout
And now pvc is high as giraffe pussy
Posted on 6/17/21 at 7:42 am to The Mick
It’ll take a while for it to reach the consumer. I’m hoping by end of the year we will see some return to near normalcy. It’ll still be higher than last year but not the ridiculousness of this spring. I’ve held off starting my house but hoping to line everything up to start the first of the year
Posted on 6/17/21 at 7:42 am to upgrayedd
quote:
And now pvc is high as giraffe pussy
Been high for 8 months now. Also incredibly scarce
Posted on 6/17/21 at 7:44 am to upgrayedd
That’s what happens when Texas and Louisiana freeze hard plus the plants were shut down/running reduced rates due to Covid.
I’ve heard bleach and chlorine gas are in really high demand right now too, which doesn’t help the price of PVC either.
I’ve heard bleach and chlorine gas are in really high demand right now too, which doesn’t help the price of PVC either.
Posted on 6/17/21 at 7:44 am to When in Rome
I hope all those motherfrickers eat shite and die.
Posted on 6/17/21 at 7:45 am to stout
I've heard home building quotes go from $120/ sf just 2 years ago to $200/ sf.
That's essentially budgeting 360k and going from a 3000 sf home to a 1800 sf home.
That's essentially budgeting 360k and going from a 3000 sf home to a 1800 sf home.
Posted on 6/17/21 at 7:45 am to stout
quote:
OSB was $8'ish per sheet at the start of 2020
Two of the largest OSB/plywood mills in the US are located in central Louisiana and both have been running as hard as possible.
Money being made by the truck loads...but good things always come to an end.
Posted on 6/17/21 at 7:47 am to upgrayedd
quote:
And now pvc is high as giraffe pussy
Some of that is a result of low production in Lake Charles I think. Isn't there still one plant that makes resin shut down from Laura or not running at 100% due to damages?
I know Lake Charles does not make any PVC but it ships feedstock to other plants in the US that make the plastic.
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