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Let’s talk about Operation Paperclip and why you have bad men to thank for good things.

Posted on 2/20/21 at 5:58 pm
Posted by fr33manator
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2010
124251 posts
Posted on 2/20/21 at 5:58 pm

quote:

Wernher von Braun and his team in the fall of 1959 in Huntsville, Alabama. Those in the photograph have been identified as Ernst Stuhlinger, Frederick von Saurma, Fritz Mueller, Hermann Weidner, Erich W. Neubert (partially hidden), W.A. Mrazek, Karl Heimburg, Arthur Rudolph, Otto Hoberg, von Braun, Oswald Lange, General Bruce Medaris, Helmut Hoelzer, Hans Maus, E.D. Geissler, Hans Hueter, and George Constan.

Operation Paperclip wiki

quote:

Operation Paperclip

On July 6, 1945, the US Joint Chiefs of Staff issued a top-secret memorandum that was so explosive it was never even shown to President Truman. Titled “Exploitation of German Specialists in Science and Technology in the United States”, it outlined a program for “procurement, utilization and control of specialists” – in other words, a plan to recruit Nazi weapons scientists and bring them to the United States. The Military Intelligence of the War Department, a unit known as G-2, was given control of the program. The US, as well as Britain, was engaged in an arms race with the Soviet Union.

The Cold War was a terrifying time of escalating arms races, and recruiting Nazi weapons experts instead of bringing them to justice was seen as a key way to gain an edge. Still, the program was seen as morally problematic, and officials were keen to shroud it in secrecy. The program was originally called Operation Overcast. A list called “List 1” included over a hundred German rocket scientists to recruit. Before the Nazi rocket scientists were given permission to move to America, Britain requested access to the scientists to do some rockets experiments of their own with the Nazi experts. One Nazi weapons expert, Arthur Rudolph, later recalled how the Nazis and British weapons experts immeidately formed a friendly bond. One night, a group of British and Nazi rockets experts even got drunk together; Rudolph recalled them standing arm in arm, “apparently comrades now, and lustily singing Wir Fahren gegen England, or ‘We Will March Against England’” (quoted in Operation Paperclip).

Far from condemning these Nazis for their actions, it seems that at an early stage, Allied scientists were willing to overlook their crimes and embrace them as colleagues and even friends. Several of these Nazi rocket scientists who’d worked on that first British experiment were later brought to America. In time, they were joined by hundreds of other weapons experts. Their cases were marked for special consideration by a paperclip in their file. This meant that no matter what crimes they’d committed as Nazis, their cases would be expedited as they were approved for admission to America. Within months, Operation Overcast changed its name to reflect this, becoming Operation Paperclip, that allowed hundreds of ardent Nazis to escape justice and build new lives in the United States.




Wars make horrible things out of men. They make killers, murderers and madmen, on all sides.
The rich make the war and the poor go off and fight it.
But once the war is over...we make a sort of peace. We have the memorials, we honor those who served, we build monuments for the dead. But it is the survivors that make history.

The eye of history is long. Few remember the men that designed the cannons and bombs and artillery for the wars of which none (or almost) remain alive who fought there.

The truth is that, if you are reading this on cell phone or computer (TD premium members get threads hand delivered by leprechauns on badgers, etched on stone tablets)...it’s the men of operation Paperclip we have to thank.


War is hell, and makes devils of men.

But, thankfully, wars end (much to the chagrin of the political royalty who desire forever wars.) and peace is made, and we move on. We acknowledge that war is a terrible thing and people die and lives are forever ruined, on both sides of the rifle.

This world is filled with men who did evil deeds in war and times of conflict.
If you’re going to condemn them then once the war is done, take every private and politician and shoot them in the head. Because they are all cogs in a machine, not the wheel they turns it.

And if you aren’t ready to hang them, strangle them, put them to death right there...shut up and let them live their lives. Because evil men made the world we enjoy. Or maybe we can grow, change, adapt and repent. But the axe must swing equally.

So if those who participated in the horrors of war are deserving of death, then hunt them all down, no matter the flag they were under, and put them in the ground. You don’t get to pick and choose which horrible war crimes you want to wring your pearls about.

And if you aren’t ready to accept the reality of the world, that we have men with violent pasts to thank for the luxuries we enjoy, then maybe bite your tongue.



Or at least STFU.

TL;DR
Bad men made the world so stop clutching your purse over it.
This post was edited on 2/20/21 at 6:00 pm
Posted by The Boat
Member since Oct 2008
164137 posts
Posted on 2/20/21 at 5:59 pm to
I love being German
Posted by beerJeep
Louisiana
Member since Nov 2016
35038 posts
Posted on 2/20/21 at 6:02 pm to
Shitttt. The vile Japanese pile of shits in unit 731 also were given immunity for their “work”
Posted by RancherReb
MS
Member since Jan 2021
1052 posts
Posted on 2/20/21 at 6:03 pm to
They had the advantage in rocketry. We were smart enough to use them for our own.
Posted by Strannix
District 11
Member since Dec 2012
48927 posts
Posted on 2/20/21 at 6:08 pm to
You mean it wasn't black women who ran NASA ?

They made that movie though, great uncle was an electrical engineer that worker for Werner at Huntsville
This post was edited on 2/20/21 at 6:10 pm
Posted by K9
wayx....BOBO IN '19
Member since Sep 2012
24033 posts
Posted on 2/20/21 at 6:10 pm to
This just means we have to cancel NASA
Posted by bbrownso
Member since Mar 2008
8985 posts
Posted on 2/20/21 at 6:13 pm to
quote:

Cyril: Kreiger's father was a nazi scientist!

Malory: And JFK's father was a bootlegger.

Cyril: That's like comparing apples to... nazi oranges!

Malory: Oranges, exactly! Do you like powdered orange breakfast drink?

Cyril: No. Not Really.

Malory: How about Microwave ovens, Neil Armstrong, hook and loop fasteners?

Cyril: Ok, you lost me...

Malory: None of those things would have been possible without the nazi scientists we brought back after World War Two.

Cyril: The nazis invented Neil Armstrong?

Malory: Rockets! Which put him on the moon. After the war ended, we were snatching up kraut scientists like hot cakes. You don't believe me? walk into NASA sometime and yell "Heil Hitler" WOOP they all jump straight up!

Posted by SCLibertarian
Conway, South Carolina
Member since Aug 2013
36050 posts
Posted on 2/20/21 at 6:16 pm to
And to think, there are those in the other thread who think our government is deporting a 95 year old German because we hate Nazis (but not to appease the powerful Israel lobby). We had no problem allying with the Soviets to fight the Nazis. Then after the war, we had no problem allying with Nazis to fight the Soviets. Now we're best friends with Israel so being a Nazi is awful but being a Commie means you'll have a bunch of latte-sipping hipsters in Brooklyn and Portland wearing a t-shirt with your picture on it. There is no morality when it comes to governments.
Posted by LSU Coyote
Member since Sep 2007
53390 posts
Posted on 2/20/21 at 6:16 pm to
I'm honestly done talking about it, it was cool to first read as a yute.
Posted by Stealth Matrix
29°59'55.98"N 90°05'21.85"W
Member since Aug 2019
7831 posts
Posted on 2/20/21 at 6:34 pm to
quote:

Shitttt. The vile Japanese pile of shits in unit 731 also were given immunity for their “work”


Somewhere, in the alternate universe where Nazi Germany conquered the world, are the descendants of American weapons scientists they procured at the end of their victorious war.

Only the victors write history, and to the victors go the spoils...
Posted by jamiegla1
Member since Aug 2016
6984 posts
Posted on 2/20/21 at 6:35 pm to
Makes you wonder what they’re up to these days
Posted by Travis Scott
McDonald’s
Member since Jan 2021
689 posts
Posted on 2/20/21 at 6:38 pm to
The Reich as a whole did far more good than evil
Posted by LegendInMyMind
Member since Apr 2019
54228 posts
Posted on 2/20/21 at 6:40 pm to
I knew WvB's longtime secretary. She had some good stories. She's not in the picture, of course.
This post was edited on 2/20/21 at 6:40 pm
Posted by fr33manator
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2010
124251 posts
Posted on 2/20/21 at 6:43 pm to
quote:

Only the victors write history, and to the victors go the spoils...


Not in 2021. Now the Victors are made to apologize and grovel because of what long dead ancestors did.
Posted by fr33manator
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2010
124251 posts
Posted on 2/20/21 at 7:00 pm to
quote:

They had the advantage in rocketry. We were smart enough to use them for our own



If we hadn’t the Soviets would have
Posted by Auburn80
Backwater, TN
Member since Nov 2017
7512 posts
Posted on 2/20/21 at 7:08 pm to
I’m named after those guys. My dad was a NASA engineer in Huntsville for Von Braun. My middle name is Max which is a common German name he gave me due to them.

Little Trivia: On Von Braun’s mailbox in Huntsville it said “Brown” because that is the correct pronunciation. His house is still there.

Von Braun’s Home
This post was edited on 2/20/21 at 7:12 pm
Posted by Travis Scott
McDonald’s
Member since Jan 2021
689 posts
Posted on 2/20/21 at 7:15 pm to
quote:

You mean it wasn't black women who ran NASA ?


Everything you love about rockets is because of Nazis
Posted by RobbBobb
Matt Flynn, BCS MVP
Member since Feb 2007
27921 posts
Posted on 2/20/21 at 7:24 pm to
quote:

Bad men made the world so stop clutching your purse over it.

quote:

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -- Edmund Burke

Forgive me, but imma keep clutching, thank you
Posted by Johnny Carson
Member since Jul 2010
1012 posts
Posted on 2/20/21 at 7:25 pm to
The Third Reich wasn't so much defeated as absorbed into the US government.
Posted by fr33manator
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2010
124251 posts
Posted on 2/20/21 at 7:33 pm to
quote:

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -- Edmund Burke



And what makes “bad men”? Because war makes bad men and madmen out of men.

Some never escape it.

But have men who have done bad things never repented? Never had an arc?


I
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