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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 4/7/25 at 3:49 pm to
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8423 posts
Posted on 4/7/25 at 3:49 pm to
quote:


I'm sort of curious about this myself. What will the ultimate outcome be? On the main point of:

Will Ukraine emerge from this as a sovereign state with the ability to enter into alliances, elect their own leader, and provide for their own defense?

Or will they end up as another Belarus?


My take is that they will have a less favorable peace than they likely could have gotten if they had negotiated early in the war.

As for your point I think it is possible they end up as Belarus but that's not what I would project today. Though I think it gets more likely the longer it goes.
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8423 posts
Posted on 4/7/25 at 3:52 pm to
I think I was pretty fair to you, I don't agree that Russia is saving Christianity which seems like a pillar of your position, but we do agree on some broader points.
Posted by No Colors
Sandbar
Member since Sep 2010
13507 posts
Posted on 4/7/25 at 4:21 pm to
quote:

Though I think it gets more likely the longer it goes.

And I think it's obviously less likely.

And that's where we disagree on the very purpose of their resistance.

The deal on the table in April of '22 was Belarus.....Russia picks their leader. Russia and China "guarantee their security". Standing army of 100,000. No western weapons. No Western security alliances.

That would have essentially given up their sovereignty.

That's not what they're talking about now. Instead of Belarus, they're gonna be the next Poland.

I see a much better outcome for Ukraine.

Not to mention the fact that Europe is now arming itself to prevent this from happening to them. The 4 or 5 years that Ukraine has bought the EU might be what they need to get themselves into a position to actually prevent the next phase of Putin's master plan.
This post was edited on 4/7/25 at 4:22 pm
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42751 posts
Posted on 4/7/25 at 4:45 pm to
quote:

The deal on the table in April of '22 was Belarus.....Russia picks their leader. Russia and China "guarantee their security". Standing army of 100,000. No western weapons. No Western security alliances


The Russian propagandists act as if there was an ironclad sweetheart deal on the table and the West talked Ukraine out of it, but that was not the case.

Initially a decent deal was floated, but Putin kept changing terms to the point where Russia and China was going to be in charge of Ukraine’s security and the West was going to be on the sidelines.



The link is to a good article of the Instanbul “deal”. LINK

A key nugget that some here do not want you to know:


quote:

“Moreover, a former US official who worked on Ukraine policy at the time told us that the Ukrainians did not consult with Washington until after the communiqué had been issued, even though the treaty it described would have created new legal commitments for the United States—including an obligation to go to war with Russia if it invaded Ukraine again,” the authors wrote. “That stipulation alone would have made the treaty a nonstarter for Washington
This post was edited on 4/7/25 at 9:25 pm
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8423 posts
Posted on 4/7/25 at 4:55 pm to
quote:


The deal on the table in April of '22 was Belarus


Except it wasn't

And do you legitimately think Russia is going to invade any other countries after this? Are they even capable?
This post was edited on 4/7/25 at 4:57 pm
Posted by SirWinston
Say NO to War
Member since Jul 2014
104464 posts
Posted on 4/7/25 at 5:08 pm to
quote:

Kremlin panics as Russian Urals crude oil price nears crucial $50 mark

by Yana Prots April 7, 2025 7:34 PM




quote:

Funding:

While the publication now relies primarily on donations, it has previously received support from organizations like the Canadian government through the European Endowment for Democracy and USAID. 


Posted by No Colors
Sandbar
Member since Sep 2010
13507 posts
Posted on 4/7/25 at 5:43 pm to
quote:

And do you legitimately think Russia is going to invade any other countries after this?


I believe that was the plan in '22
quote:

Are they even capable?

Not anymore. Thanks to Ukraine fighting back. And the US providing the means.
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8182 posts
Posted on 4/7/25 at 5:45 pm to
So, does that make what they report untrue?

Does the Kremlin help fund any media?
This post was edited on 4/7/25 at 5:47 pm
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16112 posts
Posted on 4/7/25 at 5:54 pm to
quote:

Oil was under 60 dollars per barrel. What’s it now?


I don't know for Russia but they need $50 and are selling at a discount already with long voyages for tankers to get to India and China. Iran isn't helping either.
Posted by StormyMcMan
USA
Member since Oct 2016
4691 posts
Posted on 4/7/25 at 9:12 pm to
ISW Update April 7 2025

quote:

Key Takeaways:

The Kremlin continues to deny the legitimacy of the Ukrainian government as part of efforts to claim that Ukraine is not a legitimate negotiating partner and to demand Ukrainian regime change and demilitarization.

Ukrainian officials did not report any Russian long-range missile or drone strikes on the night of April 6 to 7 or during the day on April 7 following Russia's largest strike package in over a month on the night of April 5 to 6.

Ukraine's European allies continue to ramp up domestic materiel production and address shortages inhibiting artillery ammunition production.

Russian authorities likely facilitated the removal of a prominent Russian insider source from Telegram as part of continued efforts to crack down on the Russian information space.

Russian forces recently advanced in Belogorod Oblast and near Siversk, Toretsk, Pokrovsk, and Velyka Novosilka and in western Zaporizhia Oblast.

The Kremlin continues to use its "Time of Heroes" program to militarize regional governments and society in occupied Ukraine.


Posted by SirWinston
Say NO to War
Member since Jul 2014
104464 posts
Posted on 4/7/25 at 10:35 pm to
Fair point, mate
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8423 posts
Posted on 4/8/25 at 5:22 am to
quote:

Not anymore


Hint: they never were. Russia being the big bad wolf (or I guess bear) was never a story grounded in reality. They have a lot of people and a lot of crappy stuff.

But now next time (assuming there is one) they will have better (or at least newer) stuff, but fewer people.

It's kind of braindead for people to say us giving Ukraine is cleaning out our stocks of old weapons while also not acknowledging that Russia is doing the same thing and will have to rebuild.
Posted by Coeur du Tigre
It was just outside of Barstow...
Member since Nov 2008
4603 posts
Posted on 4/8/25 at 6:05 am to
quote:

Trump announces Iran nuclear talks, Russia ready to mediate

U.S. President Donald Trump said on April 7 that direct talks between the United States and Iran are underway to discuss Iran's nuclear program. Speaking at a meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Trump announced that a "very big meeting" was planned for April 12 with Iranian officials.

Trump called the talks "very high level" and said that the U.S. is "dealing with the Iranians directly." Meanwhile, Iran has rejected U.S. demands to negotiate directly, Reuters reported on April 6, citing an Iranian official familiar with the matter.

The meeting will take place in Oman, where U.S. and Iranian officials will discuss a potential nuclear deal. Although the U.S. has yet to confirm its delegation, Steve Witkoff, U.S. President Donald Trump's special envoy to the Middle East, is a likely candidate. Relatedly, Russia has expressed interest in mediating the relationship between the U.S. and Iran.

"Russia is ready to make every effort, to do everything possible to contribute to this problem's resolution by political and diplomatic means," Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said on April 7.

Russia and Iran have deepened ties since the start of the full-scale invasion. Notably, Iran has provided Russia with thousands of Shahed drones used in attacks against Ukrainian cities, as well as short-range ballistic missiles.

In January, the two countries signed a strategic partnership agreement, strengthening cooperation in security and defense, as well as energy, finance, transportation, and other areas.
LINK

The Trump foreign policy clowns would normally just embarrass America again, but this time there is more at stake:

quote:

The US normally has a total of 156,000 military personnel stationed overseas. Trump has suddenly doubled that number in just the Middle East. The Carl Vinson carrier group is relocating to the Red Sea, and half our active B2 bombers are in Diego Garcia.

quote:

According to a report published by NBC News on March 30, 2025, the United States is making a significant shift in its global defense posture by ramping up its military presence in the Middle East. This includes the redeployment from South Korea of at least two South Korean Patriot Advanced Capability-3 (Patriot PAC-3) missile defense batteries from Asia, along with the planned relocation of a Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) system.
LINK

And yesterday, right on cue...

quote:

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has held talks with the US President at the White House. Talking to media after the meeting, Donald Trump said his administration will be meeting directly with Iran on Saturday. He said the talks will be “at almost the highest level”.

LINK

So... if these meetings happen, we will have the Russians pushing the Iranians to attack the US and the Israelis pushing the US to attack the Iranians. All the while the least experienced, least capable foreign policy staff in US history will be representing the US government. If someone doesn't leak the Epstein tapes soon, a lot of US service men and women are going to die.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16112 posts
Posted on 4/8/25 at 6:13 am to
quote:

if these meetings happen, we will have the Russians pushing the Iranians to attack the US and the Israelis pushing the US to attack the Iranian


Iran is not helping Russia by increasing exports of crude oil. Just sayin
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8423 posts
Posted on 4/8/25 at 6:47 am to
Cope Du Tigre and being completely off base on an issue, name a more iconic duo
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5728 posts
Posted on 4/8/25 at 7:29 am to
long Kyiv Independent article describing serious problems with Ukraine's training and deployment of new recruits.

Inside Ukraine's desperate race to train more soldiers

Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16112 posts
Posted on 4/8/25 at 8:50 am to
quote:

long Kyiv Independent article describing serious problems with Ukraine's training and deployment of new recruits.


Russia's meat gets little training, just to clarify that Ukraine might not be as bad off as Russia in that regards
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5728 posts
Posted on 4/8/25 at 10:06 am to
quote:

Russia's meat gets little training, just to clarify that Ukraine might not be as bad off as Russia in that regards


I agree. Also worth pointing out that if a critical article were written about russian training and somehow published or even posted on the internet then a russian author would be looking at some serious prison time.
Posted by No Colors
Sandbar
Member since Sep 2010
13507 posts
Posted on 4/8/25 at 10:39 am to
quote:

hey never were. Russia being the big bad wolf (or I guess bear) was never a story grounded in reality.


Well. I mean. There's a million guys dead and wounded out there. One million. Hundreds of thousands of homes destroyed. Trillions of dollars in infrastructure destroyed. Millions of acres of land polluted by land mines that will never be used again. A generation of millions on both sides traumatized beyond reckoning.

So the big bad Russian wolf is real to them.

quote:

But now next time (assuming there is one) they will have better (or at least newer) stuff, but fewer people.

Fewer people was always their biggest problem. They are in a demographic spiral rivaled only by China. And a brain drain which has only accelerated with this disaster of a war.
quote:

It's kind of braindead for people to say us giving Ukraine is cleaning out our stocks of old weapons while also not acknowledging that Russia is doing the same thing and will have to rebuild.


I agree with that to a point. 10,000 T-72 are worthless in a scrap yard. Might as well use them up on the battlefield. It's all the same to Putin.

The issue is that when it comes to weapons and technology, we actually know how. The Russians are good at making lots of dumb stuff (more artillery shells!) . But there is no way they can keep up in the technology era. So I agree with you there. That's why Putin launched this war. His "window" was closing both on technology and personnel.

Russia cannot field a 4th Gen tank. (The T-14 has been scrapped. It will never happen). They cannot field a 5th Gen fighter. We will product 2500 F-35s before they product 100 of their inferior fighter. They have nothing comparable to our Patriot system, etc etc etc.

Their only hope was to win a dumb war of low tech iron. And now that they have failed at that, I think they're pretty much done. But Ukraine took all of this on the chin. If Ukraine had rolled over, Putin would have kept going until his luck -- and his T-72s -- ran out..
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8423 posts
Posted on 4/8/25 at 10:51 am to
quote:

The issue is that when it comes to weapons and technology, we actually know how. The Russians are good at making lots of dumb stuff (more artillery shells!) . But there is no way they can keep up in the technology era. So I agree with you there. That's why Putin launched this war. His "window" was closing both on technology and personnel.


For all that they seem to be adapting to this war pretty well. They have experience against at least some of our tech now. They have a head start in terms of direct experience in drone warfare.

I don't think they are going to be going it alone either. This war plus a US trade war with China is only going to draw those two countries together. China isn't some manufacturing QC wizard or anything, but they will certainly help up Russia's game in that department. And their tech isn't lagging behind like Russia's is.
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