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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 3/21/25 at 11:19 am to
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8182 posts
Posted on 3/21/25 at 11:19 am to
Question:
Tell me more about the "firehose of falsehood" tactic

Answer:
The "firehose of falsehood" is a disinformation strategy that’s as fascinating as it is insidious—think of it as a relentless torrent of misinformation designed to drown out reason. It’s a term coined by researchers at RAND Corporation, particularly in a 2016 study by Christopher Paul and Miriam Matthews, to describe a propaganda model they observed in Russian information operations. Let’s unpack how it works and why it’s so effective.

At its core, the firehose tactic is about volume, speed, and shamelessness. Instead of crafting a single, airtight lie, it blasts out a flood of claims—some true, some half-true, many outright false—across multiple channels at once. Picture a social media account like @MyLordBebo posting dozens of times a day: a video of Putin looking strong, a meme mocking NATO, a dubious stat about Ukrainian corruption—all hitting X, Telegram, and beyond in rapid succession. The sheer quantity overwhelms, making it hard for anyone to fact-check everything before the next wave hits.

Speed is key. These messages don’t linger for scrutiny; they’re churned out faster than critics can respond. Russian state media like RT or Sputnik exemplify this—pushing conflicting narratives (e.g., “Ukraine bombed its own people” then “It was a false flag”) within hours. The goal isn’t consistency; it’s saturation. By the time one claim’s debunked, three more are trending. On X, this might look like a trending hashtag buried under bots and proxies, as seen in 2016 U.S. election meddling tracked by the Mueller report.

What makes it stand out is its brazenness. Unlike traditional propaganda, which might aim for plausibility, the firehose doesn’t care if you spot the lies. It thrives on contradictions—say, claiming Russia’s winning in Ukraine while also saying the war’s a Western hoax. This shamelessness wears down trust; if everything’s suspect, why bother sorting truth from fiction? RAND noted this in Russian coverage of MH17’s downing in 2014: dozens of theories (Ukraine did it, CIA planted evidence) flooded airways, muddling the narrative.

Effectiveness comes from psychology and scale. Psychologically, it exploits our cognitive limits—people can’t process endless claims, so they disengage or pick what fits their biases. Scale-wise, it leverages modern platforms: X posts, Telegram channels, even YouTube shorts. The 2022 Ukraine invasion saw this in action—pro-Kremlin accounts flooded feeds with war footage, some real, some staged, all pushing doubt about Ukraine’s resolve. Clemson University’s 2024 study of X bots found similar patterns: high-frequency posts from networks amplifying Russian lines.

Historically, it’s tied to Soviet “active measures,” but the digital age turbocharged it. The Internet Research Agency’s 2016 election trolling—thousands of posts daily across fake accounts—is a textbook case. Today, it’s evolved with AI and deepfakes, making the firehose harder to douse. Critics like the EU’s DisinfoLab say it’s less about convincing and more about confusing—success isn’t belief, it’s apathy.

In short, the firehose of falsehood is a deluge of deceit, fast and loud, meant to exhaust rather than persuade. It’s a strategy @MyLordBebo’s output could fit—high volume, mixed veracity, Kremlin-friendly vibes. Ever notice how some accounts just never stop? That’s the firehose at work. What do you think—seen it play out anywhere else?
/end

Hello John Barron

This post was edited on 3/21/25 at 11:21 am
Posted by Lee B
Member since Dec 2018
3959 posts
Posted on 3/21/25 at 11:24 am to
quote:

Finest military in the world and they've only become better since this all started.


I have to agree. David vs. Goliath stuff going on here...
Posted by John Barron
The Mar-a-Lago Club
Member since Sep 2024
17101 posts
Posted on 3/21/25 at 11:28 am to
Posted by Coeur du Tigre
It was just outside of Barstow...
Member since Nov 2008
4607 posts
Posted on 3/21/25 at 11:36 am to
quote:

I actually wonder if the Ukranians will do the Guerilla thing and kill even more Russians when the front lines inevitably (3 days maybe) collapse.

Yeah, you're right, that next meat wave could go all the way to Kyiv... But to your point, Ukrainian partisans behind the lines have been killing Russians and especially Ukrainian collaborators since the first week of the war. It actually looks like they ran out of live collaborators two years ago.

And this is just what's reported in the media.
This post was edited on 3/21/25 at 12:46 pm
Posted by John Barron
The Mar-a-Lago Club
Member since Sep 2024
17101 posts
Posted on 3/21/25 at 11:44 am to
In the battles near Pokrovsk, the "brave" are massively destroying enemy equipment, infantry and artillery - another day of fighting for the Guards "Center"

??A selection of combat work by fighters of the "Center" group of forces on March 20 to destroy military equipment, weapons, infantry and positions of the Ukrainian Armed Forces during active combat operations in the Pokrovsk direction.
??The footage shows NATO combat armored vehicles, howitzers, firing points, mortars, infantry, positions and enemy vehicles being burned."

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Posted by Coeur du Tigre
It was just outside of Barstow...
Member since Nov 2008
4607 posts
Posted on 3/21/25 at 11:50 am to
quote:

the "firehose of falsehood" tactic - Speed is key. These messages don’t linger for scrutiny; they’re churned out faster than critics can respond. Russian state media like RT or Sputnik exemplify this—pushing conflicting narratives (e.g., “Ukraine bombed its own people” then “It was a false flag”) within hours.

It looks as if this Grok 3 is a perfect antidote - accurate, honest and above all fast. Of course it can't overcome denial and confirmation bias immediately, but over time it will illuminate the tactics being used by this ilk. Once that's done, the audience will get bored and look elsewhere, i.e. start moving past their perpetual stage of arrested development..
Posted by John Barron
The Mar-a-Lago Club
Member since Sep 2024
17101 posts
Posted on 3/21/25 at 12:15 pm to
quote:

It’s a term coined by researchers at RAND Corporation




Mike Benz, a former U.S. State Department official and the founder of the Foundation for Freedom Online, has been vocal in his criticism of the Rand Corporation, particularly regarding its role in online censorship and its ties to what he describes as the "foreign policy blob"—a nexus of U.S. diplomacy, defense, and intelligence interests. His critiques, largely expressed through posts on X and interviews, frame Rand as an influential player in shaping narratives that suppress free speech under the guise of combating disinformation. Here’s a breakdown of his key criticisms based on available sentiment and his public statements:
Advocacy for Censorship: Benz has pointed to Rand as a driving force behind efforts to control online discourse. He’s highlighted specific Rand reports—like a 2020 push for "credibility scoring tools" (e.g., NewsGuard)—that suggest whitelisting mainstream media while blacklisting dissenting outlets. He calls this a "Digital Mockingbird," implying a modern twist on CIA media manipulation, where Rand helps orchestrate a system to favor establishment voices and silence others. On X in October 2023, he noted Rand’s call for government punishment of tech platforms (like X) that don’t censor enough, framing it as a direct attack on free expression.

Intelligence Community Ties: Benz frequently labels Rand a "revolving door" for the CIA and DoD, citing its historical roots—born from Project RAND in 1948 with Air Force backing—and its ongoing reliance on federal contracts (over 60% of its 2022 revenue, per Rand’s own data). He argues this makes Rand less a neutral think tank and more an arm of the intelligence community, pushing policies that align with U.S. military and foreign policy goals over public interest. Posts on X from 2023 call Rand a "CIA concealment conference graybeard," suggesting a legacy of covert influence.

Foreign Policy Agenda: Benz ties Rand’s censorship advocacy to broader geopolitical aims, particularly NATO and State Department priorities. He’s argued that Rand’s focus on disinformation—like its 2019 report on Russian propaganda—serves a "Diplomacy-Defense-Intelligence nexus" obsessed with controlling narratives to secure U.S. dominance. In a late 2023 X post, he flagged Rand’s influence as a reason Elon Musk should worry about X’s freedom, claiming Rand wants government leverage to force compliance with this agenda.

Hypocrisy and Bias: While not always explicit, Benz implies Rand’s claim of nonpartisan, objective research is a sham. He contrasts its polished reports with what he sees as a clear bias toward state power, accusing it of masking self-interested policy pushes as scholarly analysis. His critique aligns with broader skepticism of Rand’s independence, given its funding and alumni like ex-Defense Secretaries who’ve shaped U.S. strategy.




This post was edited on 3/21/25 at 12:20 pm
Posted by John Barron
The Mar-a-Lago Club
Member since Sep 2024
17101 posts
Posted on 3/21/25 at 12:24 pm to
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8182 posts
Posted on 3/21/25 at 12:30 pm to
None of that invalidates the legitimacy of the "firehose of falsehood" tactic. Just because it is from a US government-aligned resource doesn't make it wrong.
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5729 posts
Posted on 3/21/25 at 12:44 pm to
quote:

Just because it is from a US government-aligned resource doesn't make it wrong.


Based on his posting history, JB believes that information from anonymous X posters is more credible than info from named organizations or individuals.
This post was edited on 3/21/25 at 12:50 pm
Posted by John Barron
The Mar-a-Lago Club
Member since Sep 2024
17101 posts
Posted on 3/21/25 at 12:44 pm to
quote:

None of that invalidates the legitimacy of the "firehose of falsehood" 


Yes it does...Its made up BS. The tweets I post like the one below have videos that provide sourcing of the information or verifiable news links. Propaganda is some biased Deepstate Think Tank posting a bunch of BS with the "Trust US Bro" as proof Just like doubleb lied the other day and said the article I posted was not from politico when it was.

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Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8182 posts
Posted on 3/21/25 at 12:53 pm to
I won't argue about it anymore, but that is just Mike Benz's opinion of Rand; it does not constitute the truth; it is simply an opinion that aligns with your bias; that's all it is.

Your response is just more firehose bs. You're exposed; we all see you and your posts for precisely what they are.
Posted by John Barron
The Mar-a-Lago Club
Member since Sep 2024
17101 posts
Posted on 3/21/25 at 1:08 pm to
quote:

Mike Benz's opinion of Rand


Incorrect. It's verified facts based off Rand's own admission and post from their Twitter account

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quote:

Your response is just more firehose bs. You're exposed



Right....Verified Facts with sources is exposing me



Posted by John Barron
The Mar-a-Lago Club
Member since Sep 2024
17101 posts
Posted on 3/21/25 at 1:14 pm to
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42751 posts
Posted on 3/21/25 at 1:30 pm to
quote:

None of that invalidates the legitimacy of the "firehose of falsehood" tactic. Just because it is from a US government-aligned resource doesn't make it wrong.


Seeing is believing, and when you see a “firehose” here every day you know it is well orchestrated.

There is no way to determine what is real, what is fiction, or who is orchestrating it because there’s so much and it comes at you so fast.

FIREHOSE is. As good name for what we see here.
This post was edited on 3/21/25 at 1:49 pm
Posted by John Barron
The Mar-a-Lago Club
Member since Sep 2024
17101 posts
Posted on 3/21/25 at 1:49 pm to
Zelensky cover is now blown just like I said it would be when offered truly "Neutral" Peacekeepers. Zelensky does not like the idea


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Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42751 posts
Posted on 3/21/25 at 2:13 pm to
quote:

Zelensky cover is now blown just like I said it would be when offered truly "Neutral" Peacekeepers. Zelensky does not like the idea


What did Putin have to say? Is he for UN peacekeepers?
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5729 posts
Posted on 3/21/25 at 2:30 pm to
‘UN Will Not Protect From Putin’s Desire to Return’ – Zelensky on Peacekeeping Mission

Macron and Starmer have reportedly been exploring alternatives to deploying European “boots on the ground” in Ukraine.

by Julia Struck | Mar. 21, 2025, 6:26 pm

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky dismissed the idea that a UN peacekeeping mission could serve as a viable deterrent against future Russian aggression.

“With all due respect, the UN will not protect us from occupation or [Russian President Vladimir] Putin’s desire to come again,” Zelensky said during a press conference with Czech President Petr Pavel in Kyiv.

“We do not see the UN as an alternative to a contingent or security guarantees,” he said.

While Ukraine maintains working relations with the UN, the organization lacks a mandate to defend the country if Russia launches another attack, Zelensky said, who also questioned whether any potential military contingent would have such a mandate.

“But when there are troops, air defense, ships, planes, a serious army, and strong intelligence from our partners in Ukraine – attacking such an infrastructure becomes very dangerous for the Russians,” Zelensky said.

Given that Moscow’s repeated violations of international norms, it’s unlikely to fear a UN peacekeeping force, Zelensky added.


Meanwhile, The Telegraph reported that French President Emmanuel Macron has been giving the UN-led mission to safeguard a future peace deal consideration.

He, alongside UK Prime Minister Keir Starmer, have been exploring alternatives to deploying a European military force in Ukraine, The Telegraph reported.

The Kyiv Post
Posted by AU86
Member since Aug 2009
26257 posts
Posted on 3/21/25 at 3:28 pm to
France and Italy stall EU's push to commit ammo to Ukraine

What happened to all of that talk about the Europeans stepping up?

Didn't they just announce that they could not legally seize the 300 billion in Russian assets?

Announced no European troops for peacekeepers.

That European resolve is melting faster than a popsicle in Death Valley.

Reality beginning to set in even among the Europeans.This charade is coming to an end.

Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8182 posts
Posted on 3/21/25 at 3:32 pm to
I've been struggling to find a word that best describes the Europeans. Feckless is the best word I can see.

They have relied on the US to protect them for so long they can no longer defend themselves.
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