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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 11/27/24 at 9:10 pm to WestCoastAg
Posted on 11/27/24 at 9:10 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
the west literally broke a treaty and these LARPERs still dont think putin is within his rights
You say this in jest and a few people laugh who also legitimately believe that Ukraine has any kind of concrete promise from us on paper in regards to their defense
1
Posted on 11/27/24 at 10:54 pm to Coeur du Tigre
quote:
Sorry guys, Kellogg and Trump are aiming to give Putin everything he wants: a stop to the fighting, lifting of sanctions and a forced delay of Ukraine becoming a NATO member. And what is Putin expected to give in return? Entering negotiations over captured Ukrainian territory. That's all.
Why does Trump want to stop fighting? We are using 5% of the US defense budget and no US lives to destroy Russia. Kellogg complains about Biden not fighting hard enough. Well, at least he was fighting, which is far more than Trump will do. He's nothing but a transactional surrender monkey and Kellogg is his complicit mouthpiece.
If this happens, Putin has been saved to continue his war against the West and it will be the end of US influence and credibility everywhere in the world.
Right now, Ukraine is losing, and the Biden administration is still not delivering the weapons that Congress authorized many months ago. And now, Biden has the gall to propose another aid package during the lame duck session, even as his administration admits that they will likely fail to deliver the promised aid from the previous authorization --it's absolutely insulting.
Biden has done everything possible to keep Ukraine on the losing path -- just not losing so badly that it has caused a collapse ... yet.
If you are looking for the end of American credibility, you'll find it in the cowardice in Ukraine and Afghanistan.
There's a reason why Zelensky went from worrying about a potential Trump administration to welcoming it, and that reason is that Biden absolutely did not want Ukraine to win.
What Trump is proposing for Ukraine is certainly not ideal, but that ship has sailed. You should quit pretending that Biden was anything but a disaster for Ukraine.
Posted on 11/27/24 at 11:47 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:GOP, you and I agree on most everything to do with this war. However I will keep it simple and make two points -
Right now, Ukraine is losing, and the Biden administration is still not delivering the weapons that Congress authorized many months ago. And now, Biden has the gall to propose another aid package during the lame duck session, even as his administration admits that they will likely fail to deliver the promised aid from the previous authorization --it's absolutely insulting.
Biden has done everything possible to keep Ukraine on the losing path -- just not losing so badly that it has caused a collapse ... yet.
If you are looking for the end of American credibility, you'll find it in the cowardice in Ukraine and Afghanistan.
There's a reason why Zelensky went from worrying about a potential Trump administration to welcoming it, and that reason is that Biden absolutely did not want Ukraine to win.
What Trump is proposing for Ukraine is certainly not ideal, but that ship has sailed. You should quit pretending that Biden was anything but a disaster for Ukraine.
- Both Russia and Ukraine are losing the war, but Russia is paying a far greater price. The opportunity to permanently end the Russian threat to the West is right here in our hands - at no cost to us. Now is not the time to lose our nerve.
- I repeat, Trump is aiming to give Putin everything he wants: a stop to the fighting, lifting of sanctions and a forced delay of Ukraine becoming a NATO member. If he goes through with this, he is a coward and is acting in Putin's best interest against eveything the US and our allies stand for. This will be the end of the American Century.
I'm not going to put the blame on Trump's proposals on historical mistakes or missed opportunities of previous administrations. That's hindsight. I am focusing solely on the present and what Trump wants to do. He will sell out the Ukrainian people and our European allies because he doesn't have the strength or courage to fight and see this thing through. We can deny and rationalize all we want, but those are the cold hard facts.
Posted on 11/28/24 at 1:52 am to Coeur du Tigre
quote:
Trump is aiming to give Putin everything he wants: a stop to the fighting, lifting of sanctions and a forced delay of Ukraine becoming a NATO member. If he goes through with this, he is a coward and is acting in Putin's best interest against eveything the US and our allies stand for. This will be the end of the American Century.
You're worse than Bill Kristol. What an utterly wrong diatribe.
This post was edited on 11/28/24 at 1:53 am
Posted on 11/28/24 at 3:25 am to SirWinston
Russians launched one of the largest missile attacks of the war onto the people of Ukraine
One Million Ukrainians Left Without Power After Russia’s Missile Assault
One Million Ukrainians Left Without Power After Russia’s Missile Assault
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Posted on 11/28/24 at 4:58 am to Coeur du Tigre
quote:
The opportunity to permanently end the Russian threat to the West is right here in our hands - at no cost to us.
Posted on 11/28/24 at 6:17 am to Coeur du Tigre
quote:
Trump is aiming to give Putin everything he wants: a stop to the fighting, lifting of sanctions and a forced delay of Ukraine becoming a NATO member.
No, Russia doesn't want to stop fighting. Not at all. Where would you get the idea that Putin wants to stop? You know better than that.
In fact, stopping the fighting would be a disaster for Putin. Without Sloviansk and Kramatorsk, Putin can't argue that the last 2.5 years have been worth it. At a bare minimum, he needed to complete the conquest of the Donbas.
And the end of the war and the end of sanctions won't save the Russian economy from collapse, especially if the US significantly increases oil production, as it is likely to.
And, from Putin's viewpoint, I don't see how this deal would be much better than having Ukraine in NATO. The deal would involve a massive investment in Ukrainian security so that they would easily repel any future Russian attacks (think over 100 F-16s, etc.).
The deal would also involve large European troop deployments inside Ukraine to preserve the security guarantees, and how is that better from Putin's view than NATO troops? Ukraine couldn't get into NATO right now, anyway, because Hungary, Slovakia, and Turkey would oppose it. How is such a big concession to give up something that you already can't have? It would be like, for Lent, some middle-aged, poor, fat man giving up dating nubile Hollywood starlets.
No, this is a terrible deal for Putin. Which is why he won't take it, as Lima correctly says. Not until he is first stopped on the front lines.
Posted on 11/28/24 at 6:24 am to Coeur du Tigre
quote:
The opportunity to permanently end the Russian threat to the West is right here in our hands - at no cost to us. Now is not the time to lose our nerve.
I will add that this opportunity was there for the Ukrainian counteroffensive in 2023, but Biden wouldn't give ATACMS and cluster munitions until it was too late, and we failed to provide the number of armored vehicles that could have made it successful.
The opportunity for Ukraine to retake its land by force is now gone.
Posted on 11/28/24 at 7:30 am to Coeur du Tigre
quote:
I repeat, Trump is aiming to give Putin everything he wants: a stop to the fighting, lifting of sanctions and a forced delay of Ukraine becoming a NATO member. If he goes through with this, he is a coward and is acting in Putin's best interest against eveything the US and our allies stand for. This will be the end of the American Century.
I'm not going to put the blame on Trump's proposals on historical mistakes or missed opportunities of previous administrations. That's hindsight. I am focusing solely on the present and what Trump wants to do. He will sell out the Ukrainian people and our European allies because he doesn't have the strength or courage to fight and see this thing through. We can deny and rationalize all we want, but those are the cold hard facts.
You are an idiot. You voted for that drunk slut Kamala. Anyone stupid enough to vote for her shouldn't be taken seriously.
BTW: GOPTiger. This is another one of the many examples of leftists or trump haters posting examples of Trump selling out Ukraine like I mentioned in an earlier post.
This post was edited on 11/28/24 at 7:52 am
Posted on 11/28/24 at 7:33 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
I will add that this opportunity was there for the Ukrainian counteroffensive in 2023, but Biden wouldn't give ATACMS and cluster munitions until it was too late, and we failed to provide the number of armored vehicles that could have made it successful.
The opportunity for Ukraine to retake its land by force is now gone.
100% truth and it's time people admit this.
Posted on 11/28/24 at 7:40 am to Coeur du Tigre
quote:
but those are the cold hard facts.
The cold hard fact is Ukraine cannot win without manpower from outside. it's always been a battle of attrition and one they cannot win.
No one in this country is going to support troops on the ground and that's what Ukraine needs.
Russia is not likely going to give up ground or the NATO expansion talk as part of a peace deal...that is also a fact. I'm not sure what you are expecting to be done.
Posted on 11/28/24 at 8:07 am to DMAN1968
sanctions get a mention....
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If tweet fails to load, click here.Posted on 11/28/24 at 8:28 am to VolSquatch
quote:
..legitimately believe that Ukraine has any kind of concrete promise from us on paper in regards to their defense
Regardless of what anyone "believes" about what is on paper or agreed to, we have several years (and counting) of demonstrable ongoing support (primarily) from the US but also from other NATO countries...
fair to say the ship has sailed on that discussion
Posted on 11/28/24 at 8:34 am to cypher
Biden and the West's failed Ukraine policy has put Trump in a bad situation. He will inherit Ukraine's position which as of now is extremely weak. Putin's position is strong and he is dominating on the ground now. Russia clearly has the momentum. They are going to push hard over the next two months. Ukraine's frontline positions are in real trouble. This war is lost for Ukraine and the very best they can hope for is a negotiated settlement now because it is going to get worse for them. They will have to give up land and hope they can get security guarantees but NATO membership will not happen.
This post was edited on 11/28/24 at 8:38 am
Posted on 11/28/24 at 8:34 am to DMAN1968
quote:
The cold hard fact is Ukraine cannot win without manpower from outside.
arguably yes.. remember they have not been enlisting males under 25...
However, Russia has been importing troops from NK so clearly there are manpower issues on this side of the equation...
This post was edited on 11/28/24 at 8:35 am
Posted on 11/28/24 at 8:38 am to AU86
Ukraine giving up land is completely acceptable as long as the war ends.
Posted on 11/28/24 at 8:44 am to texag7
I dont believe they have a choice anymore. They are going to lose land. The only question now is how much. Due to the current circumstances Putin is going to drive a hard bargain. The way I see it, Trump has two options, 1. End this now and get the best deal you can or 2. Escalate and try to push hard/halt Russia to get them back on their hind feet and then negotiate. Biden's policy of dragging this out cannot continue. Things have gotten worse for Ukraine due that that failed policy. Every foreign policy decision/matter has been an utter disaster under Biden/Harris. Ukraine, Middle East, Afghanistan, etc. They have been as bad or worse than Carter. Not to mention how they damaged this nation with their open border disaster and their economic policy. Utter and complete disaster.
This post was edited on 11/28/24 at 8:55 am
Posted on 11/28/24 at 9:28 am to AU86
They aren't going to give up any land.
What they will do is accept temporary Russian control over land that Russia already controls. That's it.
What they will do is accept temporary Russian control over land that Russia already controls. That's it.
Posted on 11/28/24 at 9:38 am to AU86
quote:
Biden and the West's failed Ukraine policy has put Trump in a bad situation. He will inherit Ukraine's position which as of now is extremely weak. Putin's position is strong and he is dominating on the ground now. Russia clearly has the momentum.
For the sake of completeness, I would say that, although Biden bears the vast majority of the blame for this situation, there's also plenty of blame left for MTG, Gaetz, and similar idiots who delayed the last supplemental until Speaker Johnson forced it through. That delay helped Russia get crucial momentum going in this year's offensive.
Those here who have followed my posts over time know that I'm not blaming Biden on a partisan basis.
But again, there's a reason that Ukrainian leaders are now eagerly looking forward to Trump taking office.
This post was edited on 11/28/24 at 9:39 am
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