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Posted on 10/11/24 at 3:57 pm to doubleb
quote:"Putin’s stooge" was a freely, fairly, duly elected Chief Executive in one of the most internationally observed elections on the planet. He was overthrown with US assistance (at the very least) 4yrs later. His POR was sympathetic to the plight of Eastern Ukraine. Eastern Ukraine had naturally closer ties to Russia.
Putin’s stooge
Had he been President in 2014, Crimea would not have been taken. Had he been President in 2021/22, there would have been no Russian invasion. I wonder how badly thoughtful, informed Ukrainians wish they'd at least let him serve out his term?
This post was edited on 10/11/24 at 4:01 pm
Posted on 10/11/24 at 4:00 pm to doubleb
quote:They were as close as the US saying "Admit them."
Was Ukraine ever close to getting into NATO? No. By your own admission you said the West was only dangling the carrot.
quote:Link?
They certainly weren’t close in 2014 when Russia initiated their invasion.
Posted on 10/11/24 at 4:12 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
His POR was sympathetic to the plight of Eastern Ukraine. Eastern Ukraine had naturally closer ties to Russia.
They had been part of Stalin's Russification of Ukraine campaign and its follow ons. It followed his genocide and democide so he wanted to repopulate it with Russians.
The Baltics are de-Russifying now as well.
Posted on 10/11/24 at 4:37 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
They were as close as the US saying "Admit them."
You already admitted the West was leading them on.
quote:
They certainly weren’t close in 2014 when Russia initiated their invasion.Link?
I’m using you as my source material. ;-)
And in 2014 Rusdian occupiers were in Ukraine. No way Ukraine could get in putting NATO at war.
Posted on 10/11/24 at 4:42 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
"Putin’s stooge" was a freely, fairly, duly elected Chief Executive in one of the most internationally observed elections on the planet
Who was eventually bought off by Russia.
quote:
He was overthrown with US assistance (at the very least) 4yrs later
He skipped town and was voted out by the Parliament too.
quote:
Had he been President in 2014, Crimea would not have been taken. Had he been President in 2021/22, there would have been no Russian invasion. I wonder how badly thoughtful, informed Ukrainians wish they'd at least let him serve out his term?
If Putin wasn’t a ruthless dictator, Russia wouldn’t have invaded. But he is and the stooge is still hiding in Russia spending his millions.
Posted on 10/11/24 at 4:49 pm to Auburn1968
quote:OK?
They had been part of Stalin's Russification of Ukraine campaign and its follow ons.
That justifies the prejudice continually exercised 90+ years later by slavs against non-slavs (aka Russians)?
Posted on 10/11/24 at 4:59 pm to doubleb
quote:Goodness.
Who was eventually bought off by Russia.
As opposed to the BILLIONS Zelinskyy is raking in now ???
quote:
He skipped town
That is a response I'd expect to see here ... but not from you quote:Facts not remotely in evidence.
If Putin wasn’t a ruthless dictator, Russia wouldn’t have invaded.
The entire Russo polity said Ukraine to NATO = War.
Not just Putin.
If you're aware of an exception, please post it.
Posted on 10/11/24 at 5:19 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
Cuba and Ukraine aren't comparable at all really. Ukraine has (had?) quite a strong military. The reason Cuba wanted missiles is that they do not have a strong military.
yes
quote:
quote:
You think if Canada or Mexico were contemplating allying with Russia and/or China we'd not interfere?
We would certainly try to, but I'm not sure we would actually invade. But Mexico and Canada have never been part of the United States either.
Neither of these is even in the realm of possibility, geopolitically...
Mexico would be the only one of the two that would possibly even drift that way, but we made them a direct competitor with China in the 90s (NAFTA) and they've never had it so good... so they're on Team USA... and by the way, we now have net-negative immigration with Mexico, more Mexican immigrants are returning to Mexico than coming in, because as things improv there they don't have to be here.
quote:
The thing people in this thread refuse to admit is that it was a legitimate provocation, but that does not make this a legitimate invasion.
What was a "legitimate provocation?"
All the Leftist Tankies were posting Putin's "gotcha!" statement of "Why exactly does NATO exist? Is it not solely to fight Russia?"
Well, "is there a historical reason 98% of Europe and all of Scandinavia thinks they need to be part of a coalition to guard against Russia?"
Posted on 10/11/24 at 5:30 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
The entire Russo polity said Ukraine to NATO = War.
Not just Putin.
You'll have to specify dates especially since both of them were in NATOs parternship for peace for a while
Posted on 10/11/24 at 5:50 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
We have effectively choked Cuba out of any chance it had of becoming a prosperous country though. Even just making American tourism more open/accessible would be a game changer for the Cuban economy. If we had open relations there would also be trade, and likely American investment in the country (though it would have to be in cooperation with their government).
I think we are stuck in the 1960's-70's in regards to Cuban relations. Its time. Selfishly I also just want to be able to take the boat down there more easily
We agree on something!
But the Cuban ex-pat community here in the states wants Cuba choked to death, then they want to return and take back everything they had there before the revolution. Anything that's normalized with the present government gets them up in arms.
And they are how it all started, anyway. Castro was not initially a Communist... the Cuban Communists were among the groups he fought militarily because they were kind of hired guns for Batista, strangely.
When Castro nationalized the Cuban industries (something America did not tolerate from places like Iran or Cuba) we really went all out to isolate them. The Soviet Union took that opportunity to offer aid and get an ally right off our coast. The Bay of Pigs happened... and Castro immediately saw the light of Soviet Communism, 2 years after taking power he declared himself "Marxist-Leninist" in a televised address.
Posted on 10/11/24 at 6:00 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
"Putin’s stooge" was a freely, fairly, duly elected Chief Executive in one of the most internationally observed elections on the planet.
Campaigning on joining the EU, the legislature passing that application begins, then cancelling at the last minute is why the demonstrations began. It was him who ran away to Russia, In what universe does this not make him a Putin stooge?
Posted on 10/11/24 at 6:06 pm to doubleb
quote:
It takes two to tango.
Cuba chose the path they took, communism. Yes, we tried to get them to change, but they wouldn’t.
Investment would be very risky, the govt. confiscated all the businesses once already.
We kind of forced them into Communism (see reply above)... they did Nationalize the industry and businesses owned by foreigners, which happens in any revolution since the deals made for those things were always at the expense of the population with kickbacks to the corrupt dictator and his cronies... Castro became Communist after the Bay of Pids, 2 years after he took over the country.
quote:
My question is why do Cubans tolerate their govt. They do, and obviously we can’t change that.
Because the middle-class and up fled when Castro took over... and the poor have it better now then they ever did before... and they don't have it good by any stretch of the imagination, which tells you how bad they had it historically.
The same reason the Russians tolerate their government, and the Chinese tolerate their government (I won't bring up the North Koreans because... they're a special strange case)... they've never known anything better. Older Russians were even pining for the days of Communism, because "at least then everyone was in the same shape. You didn't have a rich person rubbing their position in your faces." Poor South Koreans hope that Kim will conquer the country and make it communist, for the same reason.
Posted on 10/11/24 at 6:18 pm to StormyMcMan
quote:Oh my!
You'll have to specify dates especially since both of them were in NATOs parternship for peace for a while
Please do specify your own dates
Posted on 10/11/24 at 9:14 pm to Lee B
Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here.This post was edited on 10/11/24 at 9:18 pm
Posted on 10/11/24 at 9:21 pm to Lee B
Posted on 10/11/24 at 9:22 pm to Lee B
Posted on 10/11/24 at 9:26 pm to Lee B
I guess Lithuania both believes Putin wants his land bridge through their country into Kaliningrad, and that Trump will try to leave NATO and let him do whatever he wants.
So, if Trump is elected and pulls us out of NATO, Russia and NATO go to war, Russia gets its arse kicked and we get a nuclear exchange, it seems.
So, if Trump is elected and pulls us out of NATO, Russia and NATO go to war, Russia gets its arse kicked and we get a nuclear exchange, it seems.
Posted on 10/11/24 at 9:36 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Goodness. As opposed to the BILLIONS Zelinskyy is raking in now ???
Your boy took the money and ran to Russia long before Z won election after Putin had invaded Ukraine.
Your boy taking the money and running had nothing to do with Zekensky.
quote:
That is a response I'd expect to see here ... but not from you
He skipped town. He took the money and ran.
quote:
If Putin wasn’t a ruthless dictator, Russia wouldn’t have invaded.Facts not remotely in evidence. The entire Russo polity said Ukraine to NATO = War. Not just Putin.
Putin led forces started ward in Chechnya, Georgia and Ukrsine and you font categorize Putin as a ruthless dictator???? Really???
Posted on 10/11/24 at 10:12 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
"Putin’s stooge" was a freely, fairly, duly elected Chief Executive in one of the most internationally observed elections on the planet.
Just let it go, it’s not worth arguing with a tree. Human lives and American taxpayer money doesn’t matter to hypocrites who will never see anything different. Going back and forth on here with people that bow down to the war machine isn’t going to changing anything. Let them have a safe space so they can suck the dick of people like Lindsey Graham.
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