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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 4/24/24 at 2:32 pm to
Posted by Lee B
Member since Dec 2018
499 posts
Posted on 4/24/24 at 2:32 pm to
quote:

This is Putin's war. It he who has to win it. Not Ukraine. All Ukraine has to do is not lose. Stay the course and let Russia wear itself out.

As a matter of fact, when has a modern country fought a resistance campaign on their own soil and eventually lost? Being big and bad doesn't win wars these days. Being resilient is what prevails.



yep.

"Every day that Ukraine still exists to any degree is a day that it has won."
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
1855 posts
Posted on 4/24/24 at 2:34 pm to
I'm not predicting anything

You've got some in here saying its a foregone conclusion either way. It isn't. It should be, but oh well.
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
1855 posts
Posted on 4/24/24 at 2:34 pm to
quote:

This is Putin's war. It he who has to win it. Not Ukraine. All Ukraine has to do is not lose. Stay the course and let Russia wear itself out.


Not according to Zelensky
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
2482 posts
Posted on 4/24/24 at 2:54 pm to
State department confirms US began secretly providing Ukraine long-range ATACMS missiles in March

by Kateryna Denisova and The Kyiv Independent news desk April 24, 2024 10:25 PM

The U.S. began this spring secretly providing Ukraine with long-range Army Tactical Missile Systems (ATACMS) at President Joe Biden's direction, U.S. State Department Spokesperson Vedant Patel confirmed at a press briefing on April 24.

The statement was in response to a journalist's question about a Reuters report on April 24 that Washington had covertly shipped Kyiv long-range ATACMS missiles in recent weeks.

"He (Biden) quietly directed his National Security team to send ATACMS to Ukraine for use inside Ukrainian sovereign territory in February. They started moving as part of the military aid package we announced on March 12," Patel said. Ukraine received missiles in April, according to Patel.

Washington announced an aid package worth $300 million to Kyiv on March 12 while Congress debated further aid to Ukraine.

Biden instructed his team to secretly include the long-range ATACMS in package for security reasons and "to maintain the element of surprise for Ukraine," Reuters reported, citing an unnamed U.S. official.

The Kyiv Independent
This post was edited on 4/24/24 at 2:55 pm
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
36017 posts
Posted on 4/24/24 at 3:09 pm to
quote:

Biden instructed his team to secretly include the long-range ATACMS in package for security reasons and "to maintain the element of surprise for Ukraine," Reuters reported, citing an unnamed U.S. official.


Good
Posted by ticklechain
Forgotten coast
Member since Mar 2018
454 posts
Posted on 4/24/24 at 3:37 pm to
quote:

So you form your opinion by taking the opposite side of what the media reports? Interesting.

Reply?1...




Honestly, it's a winner of a strategy. The media rarely reports the actual truth. Usually the antipode of it
Posted by ColtRange
Member since May 2023
516 posts
Posted on 4/24/24 at 3:54 pm to
It's a multi-part tweet if you click on it.

Loading Twitter Embed....


quote:

??In summary, over the past few days, the following has been noted:
?Increased activity of NATO reconnaissance aviation
?Launches of decoy missiles towards Crimea
?High-intensity aerial photography of the surface of Crimea
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
36017 posts
Posted on 4/24/24 at 3:59 pm to
quote:

Honestly, it's a winner of a strategy. The media rarely reports the actual truth. Usually the antipode of it


The media, there is no “the media”.

Sure there are media outlets that push a party line, but there are alternatives.

Too many here refuse to accept anything unless it supports their biases. I’ve seen it time after time.

Personally, I do not need any media outlets to tell me what to think.
Posted by No Colors
Sandbar
Member since Sep 2010
10383 posts
Posted on 4/24/24 at 4:31 pm to
quote:

In summary, over the past few days, the following has been noted:
?Increased activity of NATO reconnaissance aviation
?Launches of decoy missiles towards Crimea
?High-intensity aerial photography of the surface of Crimea


The Ukes know long range ATACMS are coming. So they are gathering intelligence for their next wave of strikes.

I'm not really sure this is breaking news.....
Posted by klrstix
Shreveport, LA
Member since Oct 2006
3206 posts
Posted on 4/24/24 at 4:32 pm to
quote:

But there's the Abortion debate..


FYI.. this is a red herring issue because anyone in any state can order abortion pills online and be done with it without any further medical procedure..

The law of unintended consequences and such...

Posted by ColtRange
Member since May 2023
516 posts
Posted on 4/24/24 at 5:27 pm to
quote:

I'm not really sure this is breaking news.....


My bad for posting war related stuff on the poli-board
Posted by Lima Whiskey
Member since Apr 2013
19214 posts
Posted on 4/24/24 at 5:44 pm to
quote:

war, its more about supply chains, amount of resources (people, guns, even basic stuff like food) and the allocation of those resources than anything else.


One thing I didn’t say, and is worth at least mentioning is adaptation

When you introduce a new capability, there’s a period where the enemy doesn’t have an answer to it. And you can achieve dramatic results in the short term. The enemy is a learning animal though, and they will find a way to respond to it, mitigating its effectiveness.

Also, when you’re looking at Ukraine, the relative quality of a system like the HIMARS vs let’s say the Russian Tornado doesn’t really matter compared to the absolute quantity of either, and the amount of ammunition that’s available.

A war on this scale is just a question of numbers.

The caveats to adaptation is attrition. If you lose enough air defense systems, for example, then you can no longer ward off Russian aircraft, and you have the problem they have now, where the Russians are able to drop bombs from outside the range of air defenses, and there’s nothing you can really do about it.

Rezident quoted an unarmed source who describe Avdiivka as a battle where the Russians would drop bombs all day, annihilating whatever unit was holding the position, and the Ukrainians only option if they wanted to hold on, was to feed another unit into the line, but with the understanding that they wouldn’t last any longer than the unit that came before them, and that the outcome would be exactly the same. And that while you’re getting weaker, the enemy isn’t, not appreciably, because you really can’t do much to hurt them.
Posted by No Colors
Sandbar
Member since Sep 2010
10383 posts
Posted on 4/24/24 at 6:05 pm to
quote:

then you can no longer ward off Russian aircraft, and you have the problem they have now, where the Russians are able to drop bombs from outside the range of air defenses, and there’s nothing you can really do about it.


Enter F-16

Then suddenly they cannot just lob bombs because AMRAAM has a 100 plus mile BVR bubble over the front line. Point. Counter Point.

This war can't go on forever. Russia has to figure out a way to win.

They can't win with Naval power. Ukraine has won the Battle of the Black Sea. It's over.

They can't win with armor. Ukraine has destroyed the bulk of the Russian MBTs and APCs. With drones, mines, Javelines, artillery, laser designators, etc. Armor cannot survive in the angagement zone. So that's out.

They can't win with air power. They had a 10 to 1 advantage in combat aircraft. And a huge advantage in technology, training, weapons, etc. Yet they NEVER gained control of the air over Ukraine. And now Ukraine has Patriot and freaking F-16s on the way. So the air war isn't getting better for the Russians. It's about to get significantly harder.

So we have ruled out the three major components of offensive warfare. The only thing Russia has is: More tubes, more shells, and more souls to feed into the crucible of fire. They can carpet bomb an area until nothing can live there. And then advance a few hundred meters at a time. And then repeat.

At this rate it will take them 50 years to get to Kiev.

And they're gonna run out of something at some point. Maybe it's tubes. (we know they don't have the hardened steel to make their own). Maybe it's armor. There is an end to their armor reserves.

Russia has to win this thing. Eventually China will turn its back. North Korea will run out of shells. India will get tired of being pressured. etc.

Russia better have some big, big new idea to pull out of the hat. And within the next 18 months.

Putin has kept his coalition together by force of will. But unless he starts to deliver, he will find himself at the bottom of a window like everyone else.
Posted by Lee B
Member since Dec 2018
499 posts
Posted on 4/24/24 at 6:15 pm to
quote:

FYI.. this is a red herring issue because anyone in any state can order abortion pills online and be done with it without any further medical procedure..


I guess you missed that there's lawsuits against that pill... the SCOTUS just issued a stay recently to keep it legal until those cases are decided, but those cases are ongoing, and that is another front in the Abortion debate.
Posted by ticklechain
Forgotten coast
Member since Mar 2018
454 posts
Posted on 4/24/24 at 6:21 pm to
quote:

AMRAAM has a 100 plus mile BVR bubble over the front line. Point. Counter Point.



What are the Russians stand off options?
Posted by ticklechain
Forgotten coast
Member since Mar 2018
454 posts
Posted on 4/24/24 at 6:25 pm to
Sorry," the media outlets."
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
40124 posts
Posted on 4/24/24 at 6:26 pm to
quote:

The lines today won't really satisfy Russia since the "annexed" all of 4 oblasts, none of which they control 100% of. So to get a peace deal with the current front lines frozen in place Russia would have to "cede" territory to Ukraine. There inlays a problem because, as I understand it, Russias constitution forbids it from ceding any terriorty.


Not to mention that Putin has intergrated his government into the Russian Orthodox Church. In exchange Putin’s government will advance the aims of the Patriarch of Moscow and the Russian Orthodox Church. The Patriarch of Moscow wants to overshadow the Patriarch of Constantinople so that the Russian Orthodox Church is the head of Orthodoxy instead of “Greek Orthodoxy.” The Moscow Patriarch has been claiming to be the leader of Orthodoxy since the fall of Constantinople. Having the ROC as the head of Orthodoxy will save the Orthodox world from new world liberalism which will lead to women entering churches without head coverings and worshippers sitting on benches like what happened when the Ukrainian Orthodox Church was created in 2018.

So not only does the Russian constitution not allow Russia to cede territory which is a major obstacle on the path to peace. The ROC can’t allow the Ukrainian women to continue to enter churches without head covers and for Orthodox worshippers to sit down. So there are both legal and spiritual issues at play that will not allow Putin to stop for peace even if Zelensky waived the white flag right now.
This post was edited on 4/24/24 at 7:22 pm
Posted by Lima Whiskey
Member since Apr 2013
19214 posts
Posted on 4/24/24 at 6:28 pm to
quote:

Then suddenly they cannot just lob bombs because AMRAAM has a 100 plus mile BVR bubble over the front line. Point. Counter Point.


We’re sending, what, 60 old aircraft? That’s grossly insufficient, this is where numbers matter, and there’s no obvious way to protect those aircraft at the airfields they operate from. I don’t know how you keep them flying for any length of time, given Russias advantage in long range missiles, given their very dense network of air defenses, and given their overwhelming advantage in aircraft.

quote:

They can't win with Naval power. Ukraine has won the Battle of the Black Sea. It's over.



The Black Sea fleet was useful, insofar as the threat of an amphibious landing tied down Ukrainian forces early in the war, and that they could use those ships to launch missiles. Ultimately the Russian Navy doesn’t matter though, compared to the army and the aerospace forces. It’s not significant.

quote:

They can't win with armor.


They’re relying on artillery and bombs at this point to grind their way through the Ukrainian Army.

And it has worked, they’ve killed half a million men, and the Ukranians are now facing manpower shortages. The Ukranians are talking about, at minimum, large territorial losses and the loss of Kharkov, to worst case scenario falling back to the Dnieper.

quote:

And now Ukraine has Patriot and freaking F-16s on the way.


The Ukrainian air defenses appear to be gone, at least from the front lines. They’ve lost most of what they had. You can see that in the footage of Russian attack aircraft over Chasov Yar recently example, they look unchallenged. But you can also tell from the complaints of the Ukrainians, we can’t do anything about this, and the number of bombs the Russians are dropping daily, and the way that total is increasing.

quote:

And they're gonna run out of something at some point.


They make everything they need in much greater quantities than we do. We’ll run our first, and in some ways we already have. The shortage of artillery shells is a good example. Or the shortage of interceptors for the Patriots.

quote:

Eventually China will turn its back. North Korea will run out of shells. India will get tired of being pressured. etc.


They all have a fundamental and vested interest in a Russian victory. Supporting Russia is also at the very least cost free for them, and when you look at it, you can see substantial benefits to them. Perhaps it’s the way a Russian victory weakens the West, increasing their own relative power, perhaps it’s access to weapons technology, or perhaps it’s the opportunity to purchase resources cheaply. They’re all getting something out of this.
This post was edited on 4/24/24 at 6:37 pm
Posted by Camp Randall
The Shadow of the Valley of Death
Member since Nov 2005
15590 posts
Posted on 4/24/24 at 6:35 pm to
You are gonna hurt some vatnik feelings posting like that
Posted by Lima Whiskey
Member since Apr 2013
19214 posts
Posted on 4/24/24 at 6:38 pm to
quote:

Not to mention that Putin has intergrated his government into the Russian Orthodox Church.


That goes back to Byzantium.

quote:

The Patriarch of Moscow wants to overshadow the Patriarch of Constantinople so that the Russian Orthodox Church is the head of Orthodoxy instead of “Greek Orthodoxy.”


Orthodoxy doesn’t have a head, it’s not Catholicism.

Constantinople has been a largely powerless seat since 1453, we did something clever though, and we played on Bartholomew‘s vanity, and his desire for influence. Bartholomew has committed a sin though with his schismatic actions.

quote:

Russia … can’t allow the Ukrainian women to continue to enter churches without head covers and for Orthodox worshippers to sit down.


Good
This post was edited on 4/24/24 at 6:48 pm
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