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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 7/18/23 at 6:20 am to
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21022 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 6:20 am to
quote:

If the build up is as large as claimed then that is a significant amount of combat power that could pose serious problems if used correctly but could also become a double edged sword if they don't if they lose substantial amounts of equipment and manpower while at the same time Ukraine achieves success further south.

Most likely they want to take pressure off the Southern front, as Tatarigami puts it:


I doubt it will affect the southern front, but I do wonder if they are taking some of the pressure off of Bakhmut. A few days ago, Ukraine was advancing in four different sectors of the front around Bakhmut. For the last two days or so, there's been no progress.

Maybe there's another reason for something of a tactical pause, but I wonder if Ukraine repositioned some troops further north to Torske.

So far, the Russian attack west of Kreminna has only netted them some forest, but Ukraine really has to defend Torske. If they get pushed across the Zherebets River, it will be hard to re-cross it in the future.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21022 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 6:35 am to
Twitter thread from Franz-Stefan Gady, @HoansSolo: LINK

quote:

New??: @konrad_muzyka , @RALee85 , @KofmanMichael,& I spent some time this month visiting the frontlines in Ukraine to gain new insights into the ongoing counteroffensive & the war overall. Here are some general observations.

(Note: More detailed analysis will be coming out by all of us in the coming weeks.)

First off, we spoke to NCOs, officers, a number of brigade commanders (national guard & regular army) in the field plus senior intel & defense officials in Kyiv (alongside @DAlperovitch).
Counteroffensive:

1.) By and large this is an infantryman’s fight (squad, platoon & company level) supported by artillery along most of the frontline. This has several implications: 1st: Progress is measured by yards/meters and not km/miles given reduced mobility.

2nd: Mechanized formations are rarely deployed due to lack of enablers for maneuver. This includes insufficient quantities of de-mining equipment, air defenses, ATGMs etc.

2.) Ukrainian forces have still not mastered combined arms operations at scale. Operations are more sequential than synchronized. This creates various problems for the offense & IMO is the main cause for slow progress.

3.) ???? forces by default have switched to a strategy of attrition relying on sequential fires rather than maneuver. This is the reason why cluster munitions are critical to extend current fire rates into the fall: weakening Russian defenses to a degree that enables maneuver.

4.) Minefields are a problem as most observers know. They confine maneuver space & slow advances. But much more impactful than the minefields per se on Ukraine’s ability to break through Russian defenses is ????s inability to conduct complex combined arms operations at scale.

Lack of a comprehensive combined arms approach at scale makes Ukrainian forces more vulnerable to Russian ATGMs, artillery etc. while advancing. So it's not just about equipment. There’s simply no systematic pulling apart of the Russian defensive system that I could observe.

5.) The character of this offensive will only likely change if there is a more systematic approach to breaking through Russian defenses, perhaps paired with or causing a severe degradation of Russian morale, that will lead to a sudden or gradual collapse of Russian defenses.

Absent a sudden collapse of Russian defenses, I suspect this will remain a bloody attritional fight with reserve units being fed in incrementally in the coming weeks & months.

6.) There is limited evidence of a systematic deep battle that methodically degrades Russian C2/munitions. Despite rationing on the Russian side, ammunition is available and Russians appear to have fairly good battlefield ISR coverage.

Russians also had no need to deploy operational reserves yet to fend off Ukrainian attacks.There is also evidence of reduced impact of HIMARS strikes due to effective Russian countermeasures. (This is important to keep in mind re. any potential tac. impact of delivery of ATACMs.)

Russian forces, even if severely degraded & lacking ammo, are likely capable of delaying, containing or repulsing individual platoon- or company-sized Ukrainian advances unless these attacks are better coordinated & synchronized along the broader frontline.

7.) Quality of Russian forces varies. Attrition is hitting them hard but they are defending their positions well, according to Ukrainians we spoke to. They have been quite adaptable at the tactical level and are broadly defending according to Soviet/Russian doctrine.

8.) Russian artillery rationing is real & happening. Ukraine has established fire superiority in tube artillery while Russia retains superiority in MRLSs in the South. Localized fire superiority in some calibers alone does not suffice, however, to break through Russian defenses.

9.) An additional influx of weapons systems (e.g., ATACMs, air defense systems, MBTs, IFVs etc.) while important to sustain the war effort, will likely not have a decisive tactical impact without adaptation and more effective integration.

Ukraine will have to better synchronize & adapt current tactics, without which western equipment will not prove tac. decisive in the long run. This is happening but it is slow work in progress. (Most NATO-style militaries would struggle with this even more than the ????s IMO).

10.) The above is also true for breaching operations. Additional mine clearing equipment is needed & will be helpful (especially man-portable mine-clearing systems) but not decisive without better integration of fire & maneuver at scale.

(Again, I cannot emphasize enough how difficult this is to pull off in wartime.)

Monocausal explanations for failure (like lack of de-mining equipment) do not reflect reality. E.g., some Ukrainian assaults were stopped by Russian ATGMs even before reaching the 1st ???? minefield.

11.) There is a dearth of artillery barrels that is difficult to address given production rates and delivery timelines.

12.) So far Ukraine’s approach in this counteroffensive has been first and foremost direct assaults on Russian positions supported by a rudimentary deep battle approach. And no, these direct assaults are not mere probing attacks.

13.) There is evidence of tactical cyber operations supporting closing of kinetic kill-chains. That is cyber ISR contributing to identifying & tracking targets on the battlefield. Starlink remains absolutely key for Ukrainian C2.

14.) Quality of Ukrainian officers and NCOs we met appears excellent & morale remains high. However, there are some force quality issues emerging with less able bodied & older men called up for service now.

15.) The narrative that Ukrainian progress thus far is slow just because of a lack of weapons deliveries and support is monocausal & is not shared by those we spoke to actually fighting & exercising command on the frontline.

16.) It goes without saying that in a war of attrition, more artillery ammunition & hardware is always needed and needs to be steadily supplied. (Western support of Ukraine certainly should continue as there is still the prospect that the counteroffensive will make gains.)

But soldiers fighting on the frontline we spoke to are all too aware that lack of progress is often more due to force employment, poor tactics, lack of coordination btw. units, bureaucratic red tape/infighting, Soviet style thinking etc. & ...Russians putting up stiff resistance.


It's certainly a worthwhile perspective. I well remember, though, the last time that he went with Michael Kofman, Rob Lee, and Konrad Muzyka to Ukraine. They visited the Bakhmut area and all came away convinced that Ukraine needed to withdraw from the city, and Syrsky was making a mistake keeping troops in the city to defend it. And they were wrong.
Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5180 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 7:03 am to
quote:

So my guys sent me this quote from Twitter. “This is a very weird article - it claims Burns/CIA had special clandestine agreements with Kremlin about what Ukrainian can and cannot do: "In secret diplomacy largely led by the CIA, Kyiv pledged not to use the weapons to attack Russia itself. Zelensky has said openly that Ukraine will not attack Russia."


Why is this in our interest and why is it in Ukraines interest, eliminating nukes from the battlefield aside? Which, one would generally think nukes would likely remain off the battlefield without this in a conflict of this nature, correct?
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8182 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 7:08 am to
That is a fairly bleak assessment thanks for posting it.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21022 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 7:42 am to
You're welcome.

Here's something more positive for Ukraine: yesterday's claimed Russian losses.




I'm aware that Ukraine basically claims a Russian loss if they had a shell land anywhere near a Russian artillery piece. Oryx has documented 712 Russian artillery pieced lost, and we likely see something like 75% of losses, so the real number is likely about 1000, and Ukraine's 4542 number is over four times as large.

Still, the relative rate of claimed losses is significant. Look at this graph and see what Ukraine's strategy has been during its offensive:





The rolling 7-day average had dipped recently, so I was wondering if Ukraine was having less success or was changing strategy. Nope. The Ukrainian goal is still to blow up artillery and interdict ammo supplies so that its sappers can remove mines without getting hit by Russian artillery.

The big unknown (at least to me) is what Russian inventory of artillery pieces looks like now. We can see them pulling T-55s out of storage and know that they are running out of tanks, but I don't think we (meaning the OSINT community) have the same visibility on artillery stocks.

If Russia can replace the artillery that they are losing on the southern front, then I think they have a good chance of outlasting this Ukrainian offensive and forcing it to culminate. If not, then the Ukrainian offensive will gain momentum and accelerate.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21022 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 8:14 am to
LINK

quote:

Ukraine has concluded two contracts with the French based Europlasma for the provision of forged 155mm artillery shell bodies. The first contract will see 60.000 such forgings delivered in 2024 and the second contract will see 360.000 delivered over 3 years from 2026 to 2028 at a rate of 120.000 units per year. The price of these contracts or who is financing them is currently unknown.


Ukraine is obviously setting up a 155mm shell production line.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16096 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 8:30 am to
Covert Cabal counted but cannot verify which are only used for parts.

LINK
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21022 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 9:34 am to
quote:

Covert Cabal counted but cannot verify which are only used for parts.



Great video for establishing the boundaries of the "known unknowns" -- thanks!

The more that I think about it, the more I guess that:

1) Towed artillery in storage is more likely to be usable, as it's less complicated and there's less stuff to break. But Ukrainian counter-battery systems are so dense in the South that it's hard for towed artillery to survive.

2) SPGs in storage are less likely to work, because the motors are likely rusted out, just like the vast tank graveyards that Russia has of unusable T-72s. But SPGs are what Russia really needs on the battlefield to hit Ukrainian sappers without getting taken out themselves.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21022 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 9:36 am to
The latest Ramstein meeting is happening now (this one in virtual format), and the US is preparing another large package of aid.

Reuters:

quote:

WASHINGTON, July 18 (Reuters) - The United States will announce a new pledge to buy $1.3 billion worth of military aid for Kyiv in its conflict with Russia in the coming days, two U.S. officials said.

The previously unreported weapons package includes air defenses, counter-drone systems, exploding drones and ammunition, one of the U.S. officials said.

The United States is using funds in its Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative (USAI) program, which allow President Joe Biden's administration to buy weapons from industry rather than pull from U.S. weapons stocks.

Among the systems and ammunition the U.S. plans to buy for Kyiv are counter-air defenses made by L3Harris Technologies (LHX.N) called the Vehicle-Agnostic Modular Palletized ISR Rocket Equipment or VAMPIRE, one of the officials said.

Also included are two different types of loitering munitions, the Phoenix Ghost drone made by AVEVEX, a private company in California, and the Switchblade, made by AeroVironment Inc (AVAV.O).

Additionally, a person briefed on the matter said Ukraine will get a significant number of counter-drone systems made by Australia's DroneShield Ltd (DRO.AX) alongside radars, sensors and analysis systems.

The U.S. Department of Defense's impending announcement of the security assistance to Ukraine comes alongside a virtual meeting on Tuesday of the Ukraine Defense Contact Group, a gathering of allies assisting Kyiv as Ukraine presses its counteroffensive against Russian invasion forces.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16096 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 9:48 am to
Engine rust should not be any issue due it would be external. High pressure old integral compressors were stored outside for decades in the USA in several yards in mostly TX and LA, the largest compressor dealer in the world 20 years ago had 50 acres of them in Pasadena, TX. They only sprayed some cosmoline inside the frames (like and engine block) and inside both the power and compression cylinders. Most have been scrapped due market for parting them out is dead, save the odd integral still in service here and there.
Posted by notiger1997
Metairie
Member since May 2009
61743 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 9:51 am to
Good stuff posted by you over the last page and a half.
When do we think the first cluster munitions will arrive at the front lines? Seems like it should be any day now
Posted by beerJeep
Louisiana
Member since Nov 2016
38722 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 9:58 am to
quote:

When do we think the first cluster munitions will arrive at the front lines? Seems like it should be any day now


Been there for a few days.
Posted by AnotherWin4LSU
Member since Jun 2023
395 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 10:43 am to
Can storm shadow and scalp be used as anti-ship missiles? If they can then Russia is going to have a fun time enforcing its new grain blockade of Ukraine.
Posted by DMAN1968
Member since Apr 2019
13434 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 11:33 am to
quote:

Here's something more positive for Ukraine: yesterday's claimed Russian losses.

It's only a positive if you can compare it to Ukrainian losses and it is significantly higher.

It seems that, if this is a battle of attrition, it will be manpower as much as supplies that is the problem.

If Ukraine is setting up 155 shell casing supplies into 2028 then the probable thought is this has a ways to go.
Posted by Auburn1968
NYC
Member since Mar 2019
26821 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 11:48 am to
quote:

Minefields are the big issue,


The way that Ukraine is clearing mines at a slow pace means the Russians can plant more faster than they are cleared.

Definitely need a way to clear those mines quickly.

I'm sure they have some of these, but the Russian mine fields are very deep.

https://www.military.com/video/operations-and-strategy/mine-clearance/m58-mine-clearing-line-charge/4585953394001

Maybe a few hundred remote controlled ground vehicles would work or some other robotic detection and demining equipment.
Posted by ned nederlander
Member since Dec 2012
5988 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 11:57 am to
Pravda Article on Drones

Thought this was an interesting read on who is flying drones for Ukraine right now.

“Every day in dozens of Ukrainian garages, perhaps even hundreds, people are hammering, soldering, and adjusting the equipment. There are hundreds of people. They work both weekdays and weekends, all producing FPV drones.

To be more precise, it is not so much "production." Rather, it’s the assembly of the components, which are ordered separately. And the term "garage" is a general name used for small enterprises, a tribute to the times when craftsmen worked in garages. Nowadays, it is often not an actual garage but rather a house, office, former warehouse, or even a bunker . . .

"If the procurement system works perfectly, the cost of components for an FPV drone will amount to $230–250," according to Oleksiy Babenko, the manager of the Ukrainian company named Vyriy, which develops and manufactures drones.

However, in real life, companies buy everything they can get their hands on, which increases the product’s cost.”

This reminds me a bit of what I’ve read about the decentralized Japanese war machine, where individual parts were made in houses and buildings throughout their cities.

“According to Berlinska’s estimates, Ukrainian manufacturers currently fall short of producing 10,000 quality FPV drones per month.

Meanwhile, the Russians have already reach a monthly output of 45,000-50,000 drones.”

A little ominous. Frankly drone capacity seems the perfect space for European countries to help with and hopefully they are.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21022 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 1:00 pm to
quote:

If Ukraine is setting up 155 shell casing supplies into 2028 then the probable thought is this has a ways to go.



Ukraine is planning to be militarily powerful long after the present conflict is over, so that they don't end up in this position again.

There are a lot of long-term plans being made that extend well beyond how long Ukraine expects the current war to last.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21022 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 1:17 pm to
quote:

The more that I think about it, the more I guess that:

1) Towed artillery in storage is more likely to be usable, as it's less complicated and there's less stuff to break. But Ukrainian counter-battery systems are so dense in the South that it's hard for towed artillery to survive.

2) SPGs in storage are less likely to work, because the motors are likely rusted out, just like the vast tank graveyards that Russia has of unusable T-72s. But SPGs are what Russia really needs on the battlefield to hit Ukrainian sappers without getting taken out themselves.


About this: I just came across this from the Secret Squirrel guy. A third of his posts are total crap, so you have to be careful using him, but I think he's right here. If Russia had more quality SPGs that they could take out of storage and send to the front, wouldn't they send more of them, instead of sending more towed artillery?


Posted by AnotherWin4LSU
Member since Jun 2023
395 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 1:44 pm to
quote:

Ukraine is planning to be militarily powerful long after the present conflict is over, so that they don't end up in this position again.


They would not have been in this situation if they had maintained the military they inherited from the USSR. But no they sold it or stole all the money allocated for it. The pro-western politicians are just as guilty as the pro-Russians one.

quote:

There are a lot of long-term plans being made that extend well beyond how long Ukraine expects the current war to last.


How is Ukraine going to pay for that military? Mail order brides and H2A farm workers won’t be able to send enough money back to Ukraine for the kind of military that they need.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21022 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 3:04 pm to
quote:

How is Ukraine going to pay for that military?


Postwar, Ukraine will be joining the European Union, and the EU (along with many other nations) have budgeted vast sums for Ukraine's reconstruction. Ukraine is a large country, with significant natural resources and a well-educated population. It's economy will take off as it aligns with the EU, just as has happened in the Baltics, Poland, Romania, etc.

We Americans have been burned by trying to build society in Afghanistan and Iraq. But unlike them, Ukraine largely aligns with our values, and it's not full of uneducated simpletons like Afghanistan or ethnic conflict like Iraq.
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