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Started By
Message
re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 6/30/23 at 9:34 am to WhereisAtlanta
Posted on 6/30/23 at 9:34 am to WhereisAtlanta
quote:
Or what should have happened is Ukraine arming itself prior to this at its own taxpayers expense rather than blaming others for what they failed to do.
Ukraine was invaded by Russian forces in 2014. They received little help from anyone up until late spring/early summer of last year when Russia went full speed ahead and Ukraine demonstrated the will to fight back.
Their people paid and are paying now. They are paying in money and in lives. Their country is being devestated by Russia just because Russia wants Ukraine back.
This post was edited on 6/30/23 at 10:35 am
1
Posted on 6/30/23 at 9:59 am to GOP_Tiger
They missed one day, back under Russian MoD, FSB or some other alphabet soup.
A likely scenario as to why Prigo was so pissed is that the Russian government could no longer afford to pay him in cash as had been standard procedure. It's one broke dick nation.
A likely scenario as to why Prigo was so pissed is that the Russian government could no longer afford to pay him in cash as had been standard procedure. It's one broke dick nation.
Posted on 6/30/23 at 10:09 am to CitizenK
Posted on 6/30/23 at 10:49 am to DabosDynasty
SLIP
,
SLOPE
,
KABOOM
.
,
SLOPE
,
KABOOM
.
Posted on 6/30/23 at 11:00 am to DabosDynasty
So, there are reports that CV-90s have been seen near Bakhmut. So far, we haven't seen them in action. If these reports are true, it likely means that Ukraine is about to insert yet another mechanized brigade into that area of the front.
It would seem, then, that Ukraine may make a serious attempt to take Bakhmut back in the next month or so. This might accomplish several objectives:
1) It would be a serious blow to Russian morale.
2) It could potentially spawn a new chapter in the Prigozhin vs Russian MoD fight.
3) With slow progress in the south, a Bakhmut victory would be the signal that Congress wants to see before approving another large aid package.
It's just a lot easier to take ground around Bakhmut, where there are hills and forests, there isn't the same level of fortified positions, and the enemy doesn't always have the ability to track your every move.
In the south, by contrast, the terrain is flat and open, Russian trenches are well-defended, and surprise is difficult.
The one impressive tactical success that Ukraine had in the south was when they took advantage of a rainy day, a small forest strip by the river near Blahodatne, and the speed of the AMX-10s to push over a mile past Russian troops before they were aware of it, which enabled Ukraine to take two towns without much of a fight.
Ukraine needs to demonstrate some success this summer for political reasons, and Bakhmut is the place to do it.
It would seem, then, that Ukraine may make a serious attempt to take Bakhmut back in the next month or so. This might accomplish several objectives:
1) It would be a serious blow to Russian morale.
2) It could potentially spawn a new chapter in the Prigozhin vs Russian MoD fight.
3) With slow progress in the south, a Bakhmut victory would be the signal that Congress wants to see before approving another large aid package.
It's just a lot easier to take ground around Bakhmut, where there are hills and forests, there isn't the same level of fortified positions, and the enemy doesn't always have the ability to track your every move.
In the south, by contrast, the terrain is flat and open, Russian trenches are well-defended, and surprise is difficult.
The one impressive tactical success that Ukraine had in the south was when they took advantage of a rainy day, a small forest strip by the river near Blahodatne, and the speed of the AMX-10s to push over a mile past Russian troops before they were aware of it, which enabled Ukraine to take two towns without much of a fight.
Ukraine needs to demonstrate some success this summer for political reasons, and Bakhmut is the place to do it.
Posted on 6/30/23 at 11:01 am to doubleb
And what did they do from 2014 to 2020?
I have made no claims about whether we should help them or not simply that they could have bought aircraft and not been facing this problem.
Helping them is one thing getting called out because you are not giving what they want is a bit much.
I have made no claims about whether we should help them or not simply that they could have bought aircraft and not been facing this problem.
Helping them is one thing getting called out because you are not giving what they want is a bit much.
Posted on 6/30/23 at 11:13 am to DabosDynasty
And it begins, tactical nukes and world ending missiles to Poland. Good let the games begin. I hope we send them at least 100
Posted on 6/30/23 at 11:26 am to WhereisAtlanta
quote:
And what did they do from 2014 to 2020?
They fought and died trying to take back areas which were taken by rebel and Russian forces. They received very little aid from the West. They paid for most of their war.
Posted on 6/30/23 at 11:32 am to TutHillTiger
quote:
tHillTigerAnd it begins, tactical nukes and world ending missiles to Poland. Good let the games begin. I hope we send them at least 100
Russia pushes the notion that they want to keep NATO out if Ukraine so they invaded.
NATO has never placed nukes in Poland or the other countries east of Germany. But Russia moved their nukes into Belarus.
Again I ask, who is the real aggressor here? Obviously it’s Russia? And Russia is being Russia.
That is why all the Eastern European countries want in NATO. Russia.
Posted on 6/30/23 at 12:41 pm to doubleb
quote:
NATO has never placed nukes in Poland or the other countries east of Germany. But Russia moved their nukes into Belarus.
We used to have nukes in Turkey.
They were moved out around 2005 iirc
Posted on 6/30/23 at 12:50 pm to WhereisAtlanta
quote:
And what did they do from 2014 to 2020?
Obama sent them so blankets.
Posted on 6/30/23 at 1:02 pm to Auburn1968
quote:And if Obama had sent serious weapons the Putin Wing would have accused the US/ NATO of provoking Russia. "Putin had no choice, but to invade".
Obama sent them so blankets.
Posted on 6/30/23 at 1:05 pm to doubleb
quote:
They fought and died trying to take back areas which were taken by rebel and Russian forces. They received very little aid from the West. They paid for most of their war.
The US has paid far more for this than Ukraine in a fiscal sense, we forced our allies in WW2 to pay us back over decades, what is the difference this time?
Would you be willing to raise taxes enough to fully cover this or are you just willing to get what you want now and kick the can down the road?
Posted on 6/30/23 at 1:12 pm to WhereisAtlanta
quote:
The US has paid far more for this than Ukraine in a fiscal sense, we forced our allies in WW2 to pay us back over decades, what is the difference this time? Would you be willing to raise taxes enough to fully cover this or are you just willing to get what you want now and kick the can down the road?
Our allies from WW2 never came close to paying us back in full.
Our taxes don’t cover our spending now. We spend way more than we take in now and it’s not because of Ukraine. It’s because we’ve been kicking the can down the road for decades.
Posted on 6/30/23 at 1:16 pm to doubleb
It's interesting that we don't have any videos yet of Russian tank kills by the Bradley.
The very reliable Calibre Obscura says that those videos are being intentionally withheld. He says that there are now more than 20 confirmed Russian tank kills by the Bradley.
The very reliable Calibre Obscura says that those videos are being intentionally withheld. He says that there are now more than 20 confirmed Russian tank kills by the Bradley.
Posted on 6/30/23 at 1:18 pm to GOP_Tiger
Why would we/Ukraine intentionally withhold them?
Posted on 6/30/23 at 1:21 pm to jefffan
I’m guessing to discourage Russians assessing tactics or associating Bradley’s with tank death.
This post was edited on 6/30/23 at 1:21 pm
Posted on 6/30/23 at 1:30 pm to AU86
quote:F16s would not give Ukraine air superiority LINK according to NATO.
He is 100% correct. What Ukraine is trying to do without air superiority is sacrificing alot of lives. And the western politicians like Biden are responsible for that. That training and those planes should have been there months ago. Same with the long range missles.
Air superiority would require hundreds ( maybe thousands) of Tomahawk missiles to take out air defense systems & aircraft in Ukraine & Russia( The US fired nearly a thousand Tomahawks in Iraq over several days . Hundreds in Libya). Ukraine has zero Tomahawks or long range missiles to seriously cripple enemy air defense systems.
I do understand the frustration with the slow walking of most weapon systems to Ukraine though. They've proven to be worthy of them.
Posted on 6/30/23 at 1:42 pm to GOP_Tiger
Zaluzhny is completely correct and I’m very glad he had the balls to come out and publicly address the elephant in the room. We would never even contemplate any kind of offensive or movement of any kind without proper air support over the grunts in the mud. They are the ones that suffer when air support is little to none. We as pilots RTB as soon as the sortie is finished. The guys on the ground are stuck there. It’s now time to do away with the politics in all this. We haven’t given our aircraft because we don’t want to rock the boat with China but the fact is we have chosen our side and the Chinese have chosen to side with Putin. While they may not be sending artillery or tanks, planes, etc.; they are supplying Russia with a lot of the electrical components that our sanctions would normally block as well as thousands of drones and who knows what else. The Ukrainians can’t take back their land without being able to hold their own in the sky. We can train all the crews on western tanks and other systems all we want but none of it will matter until they have air support. They need more AA systems of all ranges from short to long range AA missiles. They need 100 more Gepards from Bundeswehr stocks, more Patriots, NASAMS, HAWK, etc. you get the picture. Most of all it’s time to realize that giving the Ukrainians a couple more squadrons of hopelessly outmatched Mig-29s from Poland and other countries is just shoveling shite against the tide. Give them 5 squadrons of F-16s (60ish planes) and send a few dozen of their best helicopter pilots to learn on the Super Cobra. We see the damage that Ka-52s are doing to Ukrainian columns. Give them them at same capability to be able to fire from relative safety behind friendly lines to destroy Russian tanks and artillery pieces with TOWs or Hellfires. 60 f-16 fighters and 20-30 Super Cobras could make all the difference in the world and would allow their forces to carry out an actual real combined arms attack. Right now we are telling the Ukrainians to fight with one hand tied behind their back. It’s time to end the bullshite and give them what they need or end it and tell them to make an uneasy peace deal.
**Apologies for the long rant but this just doesn’t make sense to me but not much of what our leader does makes sense so I guess that’s just par for the course.
**Apologies for the long rant but this just doesn’t make sense to me but not much of what our leader does makes sense so I guess that’s just par for the course.
This post was edited on 6/30/23 at 1:58 pm
Posted on 6/30/23 at 1:52 pm to sugar71
quote:
And if Obama had sent serious weapons the Putin Wing would have accused the US/ NATO of provoking Russia. "Putin had no choice, but to invade".
Not in the least. Putin stopped the limit of his invasion when Bush and Condi publicly told them to stop.
It's that easy when they know you can frick them easy. Obama did ZERO land even stalled sending the javelins.
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