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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 6/6/23 at 9:26 pm to ColtRange
Posted on 6/6/23 at 9:26 pm to ColtRange
quote:
So did Japan, so did Germany. I don't hate either of them
That’s because Germany and Japan cut out the bullshite. There’s no need for this old school European imperial mindset anymore.
quote:
We're kind of doing that to ourselves, aren't we? Outside of using nuclear weapons Russia isn't a threat to the United States, militarily or economically.
Disrupting peace and creating instability in the continent that we are most tied up to, isn’t a threat to us?
quote:
That seems to be the consensus around here, I just don't see it that way. I don't enjoy seeing Ukrainians die either
They’ve been one of the biggest pains in the arse for the world the last 100+ years. This nonsense has gotta end. This old arse mindset is going to blow the world up. They’re still the same old barbaric people they’ve always been. They haven’t changed a bit.
This has to be decided in Ukraine, before the inevitable US-Russian military showdown that’s been brewing the last 80 years, happens. It’s been long overdue and we can’t hold it off for much longer. Human nature will take its course if we keep allowing it and it’s beginning to take its course. Something has to give with this East-West mindset. It’s been kicked down the road for far too long.
No one is happy about any innocent people dying for either side. This didn’t have to happen though and everything that happens is a result of Russias decision to invade Ukraine. If they’re going to bring death and destruction, then you have to play the same game towards them if you want a chance.
1
Posted on 6/6/23 at 9:51 pm to Blitzed
I’m sure there are those in Ukraine who are Nazis just like there are in the US.
The government and leadership aren’t; nor are a vast majority of Ukrainian citizens.
The government and leadership aren’t; nor are a vast majority of Ukrainian citizens.
Posted on 6/6/23 at 10:08 pm to sta4ever
quote:
This has to be decided in Ukraine, before the inevitable US-Russian military showdown that’s been brewing the last 80 years, happens. It’s been long overdue and we can’t hold it off for much longer.
I think this was a legitimate concern in the past but not within the past 20+ years at least. I can't envision Russia going into a full on war with NATO over Estonia, so where is this showdown going to occur? I know this mentality has been engrained in Americans for several decades now but Russia is a shell of its former self. Say Russia completely collapses and falls into chaos, how is that a good thing for us or anybody?
Posted on 6/6/23 at 10:09 pm to doubleb
Any chance those Russian resistance fighters had something to do with the dam? Just spitballing
Posted on 6/6/23 at 10:15 pm to StormyMcMan
quote:
Russian officials and occupation authorities continue efforts to use infrastructure projects to integrate occupied territories into Russia.
Lol an odd inclusion in the report on the day a major hydro electric dam in occupied territory went kablooey.
Posted on 6/6/23 at 10:18 pm to Blitzed
Is is the same Nazis with an altered swastika flag who invaded Donbas for Putin playing like they were striking miners, or the same Nazis who founded Wagner PMCC?
Posted on 6/6/23 at 10:24 pm to ned nederlander
quote:
Lol an odd inclusion in the report on the day a major hydro electric dam in occupied territory went kablooey.
Well technically it is now integrated across a much broader area.
Posted on 6/6/23 at 10:27 pm to CitizenK
quote:
Is is the same Nazis with an altered swastika flag who invaded Donbas for Putin playing like they were striking miners, or the same Nazis who founded Wagner PMCC?
I don’t know. Article was behind a pay wall. I’m sure the Ukrainian government has taken steps to prevent this type of presence in their military and I’m sure the Ukraine people are in an uproar about it as well.
Posted on 6/6/23 at 10:35 pm to ColtRange
quote:
I can't envision Russia going into a full on war with NATO over Estonia, so where is this showdown going to occur?
Poland and Romania. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, Russia has been trying to re-establish its geographically defensible perimeter. The 2008 invasion of Georgia, 2014 invasion of Ukraine (which got Crimea and Sevastopol back), the Kazakh intervention, and now the 2022 Ukraine invasion. All were meant to secure access points into the Russian heartland from which they've historically been invaded. Simply securing Ukraine yields Russia very little. In order to regain their defensible shell, they need to secure the Polish Gap/Northern European Plain (from which they've previously been invaded by France and Germany) and the Bessarabian Gap around the southern Carpathian Mountains (from which they've previously been invaded by the Ottoman Empire and the Romanians). Ukraine itself isn't the goal.
This post was edited on 6/6/23 at 10:37 pm
Posted on 6/6/23 at 10:46 pm to Tantal
quote:
Poland
Russia isn't invading Poland, they would get their arse kicked.
quote:
Simply securing Ukraine yields Russia very little.
That's debatable, there is to plenty to be gained in the East, although probably not worth the cost they've paid. They're pot committed at this point though
quote:
Ukraine itself isn't the goal.
Source?
Alright, I am moving on from this topic. I don't want to derail the thread
Posted on 6/6/23 at 11:27 pm to OutsideObserver
Blame and military considerations aside regarding the dam I saw something about how extensive the irrigation system supplied by the Kakhovka Reservoir is and then promptly lost track of it so went digging.
While the immediate human and ecological impact are at the forefront in media and most peoples minds, along with the potential danger from the nearby nuclear plant this element will have significant long term repercussions for all parties.
Pulled from here Google Books: Soviet Life Issue 184-195
A brief but recent outline on what the impacts could look like.
https://east-fruit.com/en/news/russian-terrorists-destroyed-horticulture-of-southern-ukraine-overnight/
Note: Ignoring the grandstanding and hyperbole this is the pertinent information.
While the immediate human and ecological impact are at the forefront in media and most peoples minds, along with the potential danger from the nearby nuclear plant this element will have significant long term repercussions for all parties.
Pulled from here Google Books: Soviet Life Issue 184-195
A brief but recent outline on what the impacts could look like.
https://east-fruit.com/en/news/russian-terrorists-destroyed-horticulture-of-southern-ukraine-overnight/
Note: Ignoring the grandstanding and hyperbole this is the pertinent information.
quote:
The fact is that it was the Kakhovka reservoir that was the heart of one of the largest irrigation systems in Europe. And it was the southern regions of Ukraine that provided wheat, corn, sunflower and sunflower oil, soybeans, and soybean meal to the countries of the Middle East, Asia, Africa and Europe. Also, the water from this irrigation system made it possible to grow up to 80% of all vegetables in Ukraine and a significant percentage of fruits and grapes. Almost all warmer climate fruits of Ukraine such as peaches, apricots, cherries, grapes, etc. were grown based on irrigation from the Kakhovka reservoir. Most of the summer greenhouses, providing the population of Ukraine and Moldova with affordable tomatoes, eggplants, cucumbers, and peppers, were also located along the branches of the Kakhovka irrigation system.
Today, without irrigation, it is impossible to grow almost any agricultural product in this region, especially fruits and vegetables. The fact is that the region only gets around 400 mm of precipitation per annum and most of them in the winter period, i.e. outside the growing season. Such a meager amount of precipitation is typical for deserts, and the destruction the dam of the Kakhovska hydroelectric power station actually turns the south of the country into a desert.
Posted on 6/6/23 at 11:59 pm to OutsideObserver
Ukraine was the breadbasket for Europe before late 1800's when the plethora of wheat from the Great Plains began being shipped to Europe. That was long before the dam was built. By 1920, Ukrainian wheat was completely replaced by US wheat in European imports.
No doubt irrigation helped other crops but wheat is more a dry land crop. Oil seeds (sunflower, corn and soybean) are a big deal in Ukraine though. Per a friend who was a trader for Bunge, Turkish companies own much if not most of the seed crushing plants.
No doubt irrigation helped other crops but wheat is more a dry land crop. Oil seeds (sunflower, corn and soybean) are a big deal in Ukraine though. Per a friend who was a trader for Bunge, Turkish companies own much if not most of the seed crushing plants.
Posted on 6/7/23 at 1:07 am to CitizenK
quote:
Ukraine was the breadbasket for Europe before late 1800's when the plethora of wheat from the Great Plains began being shipped to Europe. That was long before the dam was built.
It would be interesting to see what the scale was back then versus serviced population compared to present day.
I'm not about to start running around saying the famines are coming, my concerns are more around the supply of fresh fruit and vegetables and how the land will adapt to decreased water supplies.
Following your input and doing some more reading of the below article grain/seed production across all categories is mainly not under irrigation, though the data is 20 years old, so it is not potentially critical as I first surmised.
https://wdc.org.ua/en/node/29
One thing that is affected though is forage produce so this could see a knock on affect to livestoack as it does require irrigation.
Edit: Clarity
This post was edited on 6/7/23 at 1:08 am
Posted on 6/7/23 at 2:03 am to TutHillTiger
British Defence Intelligence
INTELLIGENCE UPDATE
UPDATE ON UKRAINE 07 June 2023
The Russian-controlled Kakhovka dam partially failed just before 0300hrs local time on 06 June 2023. By 1200hrs, the entire eastern portion of the dam and much of the hydro and utilities infrastructure was swept away. The water level in the Kakhovka Reservoir was at a record high before the collapse, resulting in a particularly high volume of water inundating the area downstream.
Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant, which sits 120km away from the dam, is highly unlikely to face immediate additional safety issues as a result of the dropping water levels in the reservoir.
The dam's structure is likely to deteriorate further over the next few days, causing additional flooding.
INTELLIGENCE UPDATE
UPDATE ON UKRAINE 07 June 2023
The Russian-controlled Kakhovka dam partially failed just before 0300hrs local time on 06 June 2023. By 1200hrs, the entire eastern portion of the dam and much of the hydro and utilities infrastructure was swept away. The water level in the Kakhovka Reservoir was at a record high before the collapse, resulting in a particularly high volume of water inundating the area downstream.
Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant, which sits 120km away from the dam, is highly unlikely to face immediate additional safety issues as a result of the dropping water levels in the reservoir.
The dam's structure is likely to deteriorate further over the next few days, causing additional flooding.
Posted on 6/7/23 at 2:30 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Ukraine's decision to maliciously shutoff Crimea's water supply
Posted on 6/7/23 at 4:37 am to TutHillTiger
The Nazi stuff isn’t nothing and it isn’t just made up out of thin air or some sort of looney conspiracy. There are dozens of mainstream media articles about it. Even the Russian Freedom Legion that went on the cross boarder raid a few weeks ago was confirmed to be full of neo-Nazis.
Now personally I don’t really give a shite if Ukraine is full of a bunch of racist or white nationalists. But there no reason in denying that they exist in fairly large numbers.
Now personally I don’t really give a shite if Ukraine is full of a bunch of racist or white nationalists. But there no reason in denying that they exist in fairly large numbers.
Posted on 6/7/23 at 5:19 am to GeauxxxTigers23
This was kept quiet, 100 leopards are already on their way to Ukraine.
https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1666359102501535744 - Video
quote:
More Leopards on their way to Ukraine
https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1666359102501535744 - Video
Posted on 6/7/23 at 7:00 am to CitizenK
NYT: Experts point to deliberate explosion behind Kakhovka dam disaster
by Kate Tsurkan June 7, 2023 1:37 PM
Engineering and munitions experts point to a deliberate explosion as the most logical reason behind the Kakhovka dam explosion, the New York Times reported on June 7.
A mass humanitarian and ecological disaster unfolded after the Kakhovka dam collapsed around 2:50 a.m. on June 6. According to the Ukrainian authorities, the dam was blown up by Russian forces to prevent a Ukrainian counter-offensive.
According to experts cited by the New York Times, hard evidence of a deliberate explosion was "very limited" given that the dam was located in an active warzone, but "an internal explosion was the likeliest explanation for the destruction of the dam, a massive structure of steel-reinforced concrete that was completed in 1956."
The breach would have required "hundreds of pounds of explosives" to cause the kind of destruction that occurred and "an external detonation by bomb or missile would exert only a fraction of its force against the dam," the experts added.
The Kyiv Independent
by Kate Tsurkan June 7, 2023 1:37 PM
Engineering and munitions experts point to a deliberate explosion as the most logical reason behind the Kakhovka dam explosion, the New York Times reported on June 7.
A mass humanitarian and ecological disaster unfolded after the Kakhovka dam collapsed around 2:50 a.m. on June 6. According to the Ukrainian authorities, the dam was blown up by Russian forces to prevent a Ukrainian counter-offensive.
According to experts cited by the New York Times, hard evidence of a deliberate explosion was "very limited" given that the dam was located in an active warzone, but "an internal explosion was the likeliest explanation for the destruction of the dam, a massive structure of steel-reinforced concrete that was completed in 1956."
The breach would have required "hundreds of pounds of explosives" to cause the kind of destruction that occurred and "an external detonation by bomb or missile would exert only a fraction of its force against the dam," the experts added.
The Kyiv Independent
Posted on 6/7/23 at 7:10 am to cypher
Interesting that Col MacGregor states that it was internal from the turbine room. Then goes on and on constantly contradicting himself.
Posted on 6/7/23 at 7:10 am to cypher
Water level rises by over five meters in Kherson, situation is critical, hydrologist says
June 7, 2023, 05:31 AM
Water levels in Kherson had risen by 5.29 meters as of 8:00 a.m. June 7 due to the Kakhovka dam’s destruction, head of the Kherson Oblast Hydrometeorology Center, Yuriy Kiriyak, has said on Ukraine national television.
The flood water depth was recorded 29 hours after the dam was blown up.
"The trend is that when yesterday we recorded rises of about 35 centimeters per hour, today it’s about 5 centimeters,” Kiriyak said.
“We can see a tendency for a decrease (in the rise of the water), but the danger is still there, and the situation is critical for us because of the high water levels."
About a quarter of the water of the Nova Kakhovka reservoir has already flooded out, he added.
He said the dynamics of water flow will depend on which part of the dam was destroyed and which has survived. The condition of the remaining part of the dam and its effect on the outflow of water also matter.
The New Voice of Ukraine
June 7, 2023, 05:31 AM
Water levels in Kherson had risen by 5.29 meters as of 8:00 a.m. June 7 due to the Kakhovka dam’s destruction, head of the Kherson Oblast Hydrometeorology Center, Yuriy Kiriyak, has said on Ukraine national television.
The flood water depth was recorded 29 hours after the dam was blown up.
"The trend is that when yesterday we recorded rises of about 35 centimeters per hour, today it’s about 5 centimeters,” Kiriyak said.
“We can see a tendency for a decrease (in the rise of the water), but the danger is still there, and the situation is critical for us because of the high water levels."
About a quarter of the water of the Nova Kakhovka reservoir has already flooded out, he added.
He said the dynamics of water flow will depend on which part of the dam was destroyed and which has survived. The condition of the remaining part of the dam and its effect on the outflow of water also matter.
The New Voice of Ukraine
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