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Started By
Message
re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 3/30/23 at 9:30 am to doubleb
Posted on 3/30/23 at 9:30 am to doubleb
quote:
If you blame the US for starting this war, you’d also have to blame the US for Pearl Harbor and not Japan.
I think he's saying the US started a proxy war with Russia, not that the US started the war between Ukraine-RUS
Obviously those are intertwined but I think that's a pretty defensible stance to take
2
Posted on 3/30/23 at 9:31 am to Pettifogger
In order to sustain their economy, China needs to build new infrastructure to support it.
In addition, China imports most of its oil and gas from the middle east, which has to travel by sea past India, with whom tensions exist and is slowly entering the US sphere of influence.
Seizing the oil and gas of the "nine dash line" would go a long way to alleviating these issues.
On the flip side, the US cannot tolerate this for several reasons.
First, getting access to this would make China overtaking the US economy permanently a certainty.
Conversely, the US could use these same resources to untangle itself from the middle east, since the US is one of the few nations in the world with the technology to even access it.
Finally, Taiwan.
Seizing Taiwan has nothing to do with politics, no matter what the Chinese claim. It's about Taiwans strategic position, which allows for the area to be easily secured via airbases.
China must first take Taiwan before they can begin full scale investment into the nine dash line.
Obviously, we intend to defend Taiwan.
Conflict is inevitable.
In addition, China imports most of its oil and gas from the middle east, which has to travel by sea past India, with whom tensions exist and is slowly entering the US sphere of influence.
Seizing the oil and gas of the "nine dash line" would go a long way to alleviating these issues.
On the flip side, the US cannot tolerate this for several reasons.
First, getting access to this would make China overtaking the US economy permanently a certainty.
Conversely, the US could use these same resources to untangle itself from the middle east, since the US is one of the few nations in the world with the technology to even access it.
Finally, Taiwan.
Seizing Taiwan has nothing to do with politics, no matter what the Chinese claim. It's about Taiwans strategic position, which allows for the area to be easily secured via airbases.
China must first take Taiwan before they can begin full scale investment into the nine dash line.
Obviously, we intend to defend Taiwan.
Conflict is inevitable.
Posted on 3/30/23 at 9:31 am to imjustafatkid
quote:
In this case, people are actually trying to pretend Russia WANTED a war with the USA and that's why they invaded Ukraine.
Who is saying that?
Posted on 3/30/23 at 9:32 am to Pettifogger
quote:
By any reasonable standard that's a fit for this thread. Now, he'll get repeatedly shouted down for expressing any reservations about waging this proxy war, but if the vast majority of posters can cheerlead for Ukraine and the US role in Ukraine, why shouldn't he discuss that same topic from the other side?
Because this thread was left on this board to discuss tactics and updates on what was happening. Sometimes this involves updates on materials provided to the war effort and includes their monetary value. That's when trolls enter to hijack the conversation from WHAT is happening over to SHOULD it be happening in regard to funding. The latter is supposed to be discussed on the poli board.
Posted on 3/30/23 at 9:32 am to RogerTheShrubber
Can we get an update on the Vaunted Vilifying Wagner (pronounced "Vwagner) Group? Are they making progress, or are they still getting their asses handed to them?
Posted on 3/30/23 at 9:32 am to Pettifogger
quote:
I think he's saying the US started a proxy war with Russia, not that the US started the war between Ukraine-RUS
Absolutely. We're in the conflict because it's Russia and many in our country have been making Russia the boogey-man for the better part of a decade.
Russia started the war in the Ukraine, but Russia did not start a war against the USA.
Posted on 3/30/23 at 9:33 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Its our choice, Russia didn't force shite.
This is true, and we were right to do so.
Only a fool would allow China to have a powerful Russian ally.
We have chosen instead to allow China to gain a weakened Russian ally.
Works for us. Theyll be sucking Chinese cock for 4000 years.
Posted on 3/30/23 at 9:33 am to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
Who is saying that?
Every single person who says Russia started a conflict with the USA is saying that. Our involvement is all I care about here.
Posted on 3/30/23 at 9:33 am to imjustafatkid
quote:
This is false. Russia did not invade Ukraine with the goal of fighting the USA. We are doing the exact same stupid crap that kept us in the Middle East for decades.
Hitler didn’t think Britain and France would declare war if Germany attacked Poland.
Japan thought they could deal the US a near death blow and buy time to set up defenses so they could cut a peace deal from a formidable position.
Putin thought he could blitz Ukraine, take Kiev, Kharkov and Odessa and topple Ukraine in a couple of months.
They all miscalculated.
Posted on 3/30/23 at 9:35 am to BambiisDead
quote:
Only a fool would allow China to have a powerful Russian ally.
We have chosen instead to allow China to gain a weakened Russian ally.
By what standard do you believe Russia has been weakened? Are you one of those foolish people who thinks a country has to trade with Europe and the USA in order to be powerful? Because trade with Western nations is about all we've slowed (not stopped) at this point.
Posted on 3/30/23 at 9:36 am to doubleb
quote:
Putin thought he could blitz Ukraine, take Kiev, Kharkov and Odessa and topple Ukraine in a couple of months.
Did he?
quote:
Hitler didn’t think Britain and France would declare war if Germany attacked Poland.
Japan thought they could deal the US a near death blow and buy time to set up defenses so they could cut a peace deal from a formidable position.
Why are you under the impression that Russia wanted anything more than Ukraine?
Posted on 3/30/23 at 9:38 am to imjustafatkid
Weakened in the sense they cannot offer meaningful military aid to China when the 2nd Pacific War begins.
Weakened in the sense they have been permanently removed from European influence, and Europe returned to US dependency.
Those were our strategic goals from the beginning, and have been an outstanding success.
Russia is now stuck in a bloody mess that it will take a very long time to untangle itself from.
By the time it does, it will be too late.
Weakened in the sense they have been permanently removed from European influence, and Europe returned to US dependency.
Those were our strategic goals from the beginning, and have been an outstanding success.
Russia is now stuck in a bloody mess that it will take a very long time to untangle itself from.
By the time it does, it will be too late.
Posted on 3/30/23 at 9:38 am to imjustafatkid
quote:
Every single person who says Russia started a conflict with the USA is saying that.
I’m not really seeing much or any of that in this thread. I don’t think anyone is arguing that russia coerced or otherwise brought the US purposefully into its involvement in this war.
Can you link to people in this thread saying that russia wants the US involved or started this current conflict with the US?
Posted on 3/30/23 at 9:38 am to facher08
quote:
Because this thread was left on this board to discuss tactics and updates on what was happening. Sometimes this involves updates on materials provided to the war effort and includes their monetary value. That's when trolls enter to hijack the conversation from WHAT is happening over to SHOULD it be happening in regard to funding. The latter is supposed to be discussed on the poli board.
Bravo
Labeling any discussion about the US role involving reservations as "political" while deeming "WE NEED TO GIVE UKRAINE _________ immediately!" (this advocacy appears throughout this thread) as tactical/non-political is a good effort at marginalizing any dissenting views.
It's disingenuous, of course.
Posted on 3/30/23 at 9:41 am to JohnnyKilroy
I think he and some of the thread regulars are just talking past each other and they assumed he was blaming the color revolution for the war, etc.
Posted on 3/30/23 at 9:42 am to Pettifogger
quote:
I think he's saying the US started a proxy war with Russia, not that the US started the war between Ukraine-RUS
Good, you understand what the fact is, Russia started the war.
And yes when we saw the Ukrainians were putting up a hell of a fight and when we saw how brutal Russia was attacking; we did get actively involved in helping Ukraine.
Now I believe we had good reasons to get involved, but I understand someone taking the position that we should have stayed out. I can understand concerns about the large sums of money we are spending to help.
But I can not accept anyone who blames the situation we have now on the US. Russia created the situation by attacking Ukraine in 2014 and then going all in in 2022.
This post was edited on 3/30/23 at 10:00 am
Posted on 3/30/23 at 9:43 am to doubleb
quote:
They all miscalculated.
I certainly agree. Honestly, if I heard more voice given to the very realistic - perhaps even likely - possibility that we've also miscalculated and will inevitably have a costly disentanglement down the line, I'd have much less objection to those who support our role in this conflict.
Posted on 3/30/23 at 9:44 am to Pettifogger
quote:
"WE NEED TO GIVE UKRAINE _________ immediately!
In regards to tactics, not politics. I don't understand why this is so hard to understand.
ETA: People in this thread have gone over to the poli board to discuss the political ramifications. No one here is scared of dissenting opinions, but the fact is that when they are posted here, they are often just trolls.
This post was edited on 3/30/23 at 9:48 am
Posted on 3/30/23 at 9:44 am to Pettifogger
Here's the current thread on the Poliboard for discussing whether or not the US should be helping Ukraine:
LINK
This thread is for discussing developments relating to the actual war. Chicken has repeatedly asked for politics to be kept off this topic and the rest of the OT. In here, we're talking about things such as tanks and fighter jets.
LINK
This thread is for discussing developments relating to the actual war. Chicken has repeatedly asked for politics to be kept off this topic and the rest of the OT. In here, we're talking about things such as tanks and fighter jets.
Posted on 3/30/23 at 9:44 am to doubleb
quote:
Good, you understand what the fact is, Russia started the war.
CHina should sign a military agreement with Mexico to see what the US does
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