re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

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What that guy posted isn't some groundbreaking take. If anything, it's ignorant to the fact that this won't stop at Donbas. If Ukraine capitulates here it opens the door for their entire nation to become a puppet state. To think that they shouldn't resist, and that the international community isn't going to hit Russia with harsh sanctions for this, is silly.

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I've never stated that they shouldn't resist. I'm just trying to point out the rationale behind both sides as well as point out what's a reasonable negotiation. If both sides say "All or nothing", then it's not much of a negotiation.

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Russian troops repeatedly tried to storm the outskirts of Kyiv. All movements were under control, columns of Russian equipment were destroyed. Invader suffered significant personnel losses, is demoralized and exhausted, - Kyiv Defense Commander

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Ukraine better not give up anything in the peace talks. At this point they have the upper hand and Russia hasn’t earned anything

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Ingeniero

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When me and SFP submit almost verbatim posts at the same time

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I had no idea you were black.

Nah I'm a honkey. I guess this one of me and SFP is more melanin accurate:

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I just don't like when all those people agree and fiercely attack anyone who even tangentially strays from the hivemind narrative.

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But there isn't really much substance outside of that "hivemind narrative". You have your standard "muh reasons" that can, but not always, devolve into basically Putin admiration. And then you get the shitty "What if Mexico and Russia devised a defensive pact" argument that ignores the very reason why there is still conflict in Eastern Europe (freedom of liberal democracies and free trade).

And you see the same 2-3 memes repeated over and over again while those people accuse anyone how supporting the 2-3 memes as wanting to send US troops to start a world-ending nuclear war.

First, there is the "muh 2014 coup" meme. I spent a long time yesterday with people trying to bring up 2014 as a justification for this war and there is literally no logic in that argument.

These same people also love to argue that this is a plot by "globalists" to keep their honeypot open (And Russia is not only justified, but noble in its fight against these "globalists". These same people have spoken for years about how Russia/Putin is a bastion of hope in their perceived fight against "globalists"). These people are also the ones who will "argue" that Russia isn't woke and our real enemy, the only one we should care about, are domestic woke twitter accounts.

Then you have the "muh nuclear war" excuses, which are now trying to include economic sanctions in with a real military response. I don't think there are that many people who want nuclear war, but when you move the line so much that basically ANY response to Russia's abhorrent behavior paves a path to that hell, then you're not arguing with any reason.

I've never made any of those arguments, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. You've made the Ethan Klein metamorphosis big time.

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I've never made any of those arguments

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Come on, man. We quite literally forced a regime change in Ukraine in 2013/2014 and it led to this. That stabilized a region? I realize we'll disagree on some fairly minor things on the overall issue, but what you stated is just batshit.

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One of the problems is -- and I don't know which side is BS -- some people will say Yanukovych was illegitimate and installed by the Russians. The other side then says Poroshenko was illegitimate and installed by our coup. And around and around we go.