- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 2/18/23 at 10:10 am to Burhead
Posted on 2/18/23 at 10:10 am to Burhead
quote:
One good thing that will come out of this is the Poles and other eastern European countries assuming a leading role in European political and military affairs.
Germany and France still have the two largest economies by a lot, in Europe
Posted on 2/18/23 at 10:16 am to CitizenK
quote:Germany (€4.0 trillion),
Germany and France still have the two largest economies by a lot, in Europe
United Kingdom (€3.2 trillion),
France (€2.7 trillion),
Russia (€2.1 trillion),
Italy (€1.9 trillion),
Spain (€1.4 trillion)
Posted on 2/18/23 at 10:18 am to GREENHEAD22
Posted on 2/18/23 at 10:29 am to soccerfüt
quote:
Germany (€4.0 trillion),
United Kingdom (€3.2 trillion),
France (€2.7 trillion),
Russia (€2.1 trillion),
Italy (€1.9 trillion),
Spain (€1.4 trillion)
Italy:
Posted on 2/18/23 at 1:07 pm to Chromdome35
quote:
It looks like Poland will be the preeminent power on the European landscape.
As long as you aren't taking navies into consideration. The UK and France have the ability to project power at a distance, and they both have nukes.
Both they both need powerful navies and the ability to project power, as they still have territories all over the world. France has several islands in the Caribbean, there's French Guyana in South America, there's French Polynesia and other French islands in the South Pacific, Reunion island off the coast of Africa, etc.
The UK still has Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean, Gibraltar, the Falklands, a large number of Caribbean islands, and the responsibility of its military alliances with Commonwealth nations.
The fact that both the UK and France are world powers with nuclear weapons and seats on the UN Security Council means that they are still, to a very great extent, the "preeminent powers" in Europe -- Germany's economy notwithstanding.
Posted on 2/18/23 at 1:26 pm to GOP_Tiger
The so-called "Witch of Bakhmut," Olga Bigar, recounts an action at the asphalt plant when her mortar platoon was on the frontlines there a couple months back. Apparently the Ukrainians in this sector of the front refer to the RFA as "orcs."
YouTube
YouTube
This post was edited on 2/18/23 at 1:34 pm
Posted on 2/18/23 at 2:11 pm to DabosDynasty
quote:
"The United Kingdom will be the first country to provide Ukraine with long range weapons"
It would appear that Prime Minister Sunak has discussed the issue with the US, and we've told them that if they want to give Storm Shadow to Ukraine, that they can go ahead. And "first" means that the deliveries will happen soon, before the US sends GLSDB.
For those who've missed our previous discussions, Storm Shadow is a huge missile that weighs 2900 pounds, carries a massive warhead, and has a range of 350 miles in the standard version, though there is also an "export version" that only goes 155 miles. Even that 155 miles, though, is enough to hit all of Crimea.
LSUPilot, what plane did you think Ukraine would fire them from? Wouldn't it be the SU-24s? That's a plane with the size and role to carry and fire these giant missiles. And Ukraine still has enough of them for these missions.
Back in November, people were already talking about this.
The more I think about it, the more confident I am that this is not technically any harder than rigging HARM to be fired from Ukrainian aircraft, as Storm Shadow is GPS-guided, so it should be able to be programmed on the ground and then fired from a tablet like HARM is.
quote:
Speculations are rife that Ukraine might equip its Su-24Ms with Storm Shadow missiles and air-launched cruise missiles.
This is the true game-changer, folks. It means that Ukraine will take out the Kerch Bridge once and for all, it means that Ukraine will strike Russian bases in Crimea and render them unusable, it means that Russia will not be able to use airfields in Mariupol or Berdyansk, it means that no Russian ship will be able to dock anywhere in Crimea or southern Ukraine, and it means that Ukraine will isolate southern Ukraine by taking out key bridges on the road from Mariupol to Melitopol.
In short, this is the weapon that ensures the success of Ukraine's big offensive this spring. Ultimately, it wins the war.
I wonder how many missiles the UK will give Ukraine.
Storm Shadow missiles cost about $2 million or so each, so it's not as though, so the UK could conceivably provide 50 or so and not get too overbudget. This is a missile that's in current production, so the UK can replace what it gives, and I'm guessing that this is a case where older missiles were probably nearing an expiration date anyway.
This post was edited on 2/18/23 at 6:15 pm
Posted on 2/18/23 at 2:17 pm to GOP_Tiger
Macron's speech yesterday:
"I accepted that." It's just nuts how eager so much of the world was to believe Putin. But it seems that the scales have finally fallen from Macron's eyes, as we saw from the new weapons promises yesterday.
quote:
MUNICH — French President Emmanuel Macron on Friday called out Vladimir Putin for telling him last year that the paramilitary Wagner Group had nothing to do with Russia.
“A year ago I spoke to Putin and he assured me Russia had nothing to do with the Wagner Group,” he told an audience at the Munich Security Conference. “I accepted that,” he said.
The Wagner Group has since provided military services supporting Russia’s war effort. It means Moscow “formalized the fact that Wagner was an explicit, direct, diplomatic-military, neo-mafia medium of Russia around the world,” Macron said.
"I accepted that." It's just nuts how eager so much of the world was to believe Putin. But it seems that the scales have finally fallen from Macron's eyes, as we saw from the new weapons promises yesterday.
Posted on 2/18/23 at 2:23 pm to GOP_Tiger
CNN reporting that China has been providing non-lethal military aid to Russia but may be considering sending lethal aid soon.
Posted on 2/18/23 at 2:29 pm to Burhead
quote:
CNN reporting that China has been providing non-lethal military aid to Russia but may be considering sending lethal aid soon.
I'm very skeptical that they will send lethal aid. China is already in trouble with the US about the balloon. It's economy has been in the tank since COVID. They don't want more trouble with the US and Europe right now.
Posted on 2/18/23 at 2:33 pm to GOP_Tiger
If you want to add up what has been delivered to Ukraine with the stuff that's been promised but is still on the way:
- Tanks: 640+
- Infantry Fighting Vehicles: 400+
- Armoured Personnel Carriers: 1.450+
- MRAP Vehicles: 925+
- Infantry Mobility Vehicles: 2.200+
- Towed Artillery: 350+
- Self-Propelled Artillery: 400+
- Rocket Launchers: 100+
That's a lot.
- Tanks: 640+
- Infantry Fighting Vehicles: 400+
- Armoured Personnel Carriers: 1.450+
- MRAP Vehicles: 925+
- Infantry Mobility Vehicles: 2.200+
- Towed Artillery: 350+
- Self-Propelled Artillery: 400+
- Rocket Launchers: 100+
That's a lot.
Posted on 2/18/23 at 3:49 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
I'm very skeptical that they will send lethal aid. China is already in trouble with the US about the balloon. It's economy has been in the tank since COVID. They don't want more trouble with the US and Europe right now.
Certainly interesting possibility given military comms between us are now reportedly cut. I’m sure if they do they’re counting us not retaliating militarily on them, but I wonder what they expect in economic sanctions for potentially aiding Russia more effectively, if any.
Posted on 2/18/23 at 4:30 pm to GOP_Tiger
You could technically use any of the Su-24, Su-27 or Mig-29 all on the assumption that they can modify them to carry the storm shadow (which they can). It is like you said a very heavy piece of ordnance but it’s actually roughly 3,000 lbs not 6300 with a 1,000 lb warhead. Technically the Mig-29 can carry it but the weight of it means you have to burn more fuel and you would have vastly degraded performance of the aircraft while it was attached. The Mig doesn’t have a long range in the first place so you’d have to take off fairly close to enemy territory so I would cross it off as an option. You’d want either the Su-24 or the Su-27 to deliver that kind of payload. Both are large enough and have plenty of fuel range to be able to take off from a safer location further from enemy air defenses and both the Sukhois have the power to come in fast, launch and get the hell out of dodge in a hurry. If I’m the pilot flying the mission I would feel a lot better about having the Su-27’s agility and pure speed available to me if I needed it since you really want to fire the storm shadow at altitude for target acquisition and then it would fly itself at low altitude to the target before climbing once again before it hits. This is type of mission is what the Su-24 was designed for so it will most likely be the one chosen to do the job as it is a low level bomber and you’d want to fly as low as possible as long as possible before climbing to launch. I also know the Ukrainians could stomach losing the 24 more than the 27 if it were to be hit by air defenses.
This post was edited on 2/18/23 at 4:34 pm
Posted on 2/18/23 at 6:11 pm to TutHillTiger
USNS Brittin currently loading up military supplies in Charleston according to its AIS for what I can only assume is equipment heading to Europe.
Charleston has become quite the departure hub for equipment heading that way from the US flagged ROROs, USNS ships, and constant C-17 flights
Charleston has become quite the departure hub for equipment heading that way from the US flagged ROROs, USNS ships, and constant C-17 flights
Posted on 2/18/23 at 7:26 pm to LSUPilot07
quote:
It is like you said a very heavy piece of ordnance but it’s actually roughly 3,000 lbs not 6300 with a 1,000 lb warhead
Thanks. Silly me saw 2900 lbs and thought it read 2900 kg.
I've been thinking about this some more, and I'm curious how you think that Russian air defense will perform against this missile.
Storm Shadow isn't very fast: only Mach 0.8. It's large size should mean that Russian radar will see it. It's not a new weapon (was used in Iraq in 2003).
So, in theory, Russian air defense might be able to intercept Storm Shadow, right? Based on Russian AD in the war so far, I'm skeptical that reality will match up to theory, but I'm curious what you think.
On a related topic, the British providing Storm Shadow means that the US now has very little reason not to provide ATACMS. For a long time, we were saying that it would be too escalatory, but we've quit saying that now, and it certainly wouldn't make any sense if Storm Shadow is hitting targets at about the same range.
No, the argument lately has been that ATACMS is no longer in production and we don't have enough to send any to Ukraine. I think that argument is rather silly, as the Army bought more ATACMS in 2019, and the only reason that production stopped was that the Army is now buying the PrSM, the successor to ATACMS.
In fact, this past July, the Senate Armed Services Committee tried to add $100 million to the DoD appropriations bill to restore older ATACMS rockets that had been withdrawn from service (but, from what I can figure out, that expenditure did not make it into the final bill passed by Congress).
So, it's really disingenuous for our leaders to say that we can't send any ATACMS to Ukraine because we don't have enough in our inventory -- because we can easily add some back to our inventory while we wait for PrSM to be produced in significant quantity. Saying that we don't have enough is just a dumb excuse that we're using because we can no longer use the escalation excuse.
So, I think that the odds are high that Biden will decide to send ATACMS to Ukraine, and that he will announce this on the 24th.
Posted on 2/18/23 at 7:27 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Apparently the Ukrainians in this sector of the front refer to the RFA as "orcs."
YOu are about a year late. They are called that across Ukraine
Posted on 2/18/23 at 8:01 pm to GOP_Tiger
Whoa. The head of U.S. European Command and supreme allied commander for Europe just told US congressmen that we should send ATACMS and F-16s.
From Politico:
F-16s, longer-range missiles could help Ukraine beat Russia, U.S. general privately tells lawmakers
Either Gen. Cavoli very badly spoke out of turn, or he was prepping US lawmakers for big news when President Biden meets with Zelensky on the anniversary of the invasion on the 24th.
I've been saying that I believe that President Biden will announce some combo of:
- F-16s
- ATACMS
- A large number of Bradleys and Strykers
I believe that more than ever now. There are several reasons:
1) Russia's "big offensive" is already showing itself to be a nothingburger. I'm reading more military experts who are saying that Russia is just exhausting resources and making itself more vulnerable when Ukraine attacks this spring. Everyone loves a winner, and Ukraine is looking more and more like a winner in this conflict.
2) The start of the Presidential campaign means that Biden will be under increasing pressure for Ukraine to win the war. If the war degenerates into a stalemate, and Russia ends up keeping some Ukrainian territory, the GOP will attack him as weak (which they are already doing with Afghanistan, with the balloon, etc.) President Biden needs for Ukraine to win. On the other hand, if Ukraine wins the war this year or at least takes back a large amount of territory, that will give Biden an accomplishment to brag about on the campaign trail.
3) Our European allies are not only fully on board, they are pushing us to make this step. The Dutch are openly saying that they will give F-16s if the US does too. As discussed, the British are already giving Ukraine long-range weapons. As we have repeatedly seen in this war, President Biden has attempted to keep US involvement in the center of NATO. It's a war in Europe, so we need to be in step with our European partners, neither too far out in front of them, nor lagging behind -- and we are now in danger of lagging behind and failing to support our friends.
A lot of people are deciding that a year of devastation is enough, and it's time to give Ukraine what we need to give them to win the war. I think that's what we're going to do.
From Politico:
F-16s, longer-range missiles could help Ukraine beat Russia, U.S. general privately tells lawmakers
quote:
In a Friday morning closed-door briefing with more than 10 senators and House members, Gen. Christopher Cavoli was asked if F-16 fighter jets would help Ukraine win the war against Russia. He responded: “Yes,” according to five people in the room who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a private session.
The F-16 question was part of a larger discussion over the conduct of the war and what Kyiv needs to succeed in its plans to go on the offensive, and blunt Russian offensives across hundreds of miles of front lines. Cavoli said Ukraine needs longer-range missiles to allow its forces to strike Russian positions from farther away, putting headquarters and rear supply lines at risk, which would help disrupt the Russian war machine inside Ukraine.
The general’s answer goes further than previous public comments by top national security officials, who have said they haven’t ruled out sending fighter jets in the future, but also note that air defenses are the most urgent current need.
Cavoli told the lawmakers at the Munich Security Conference that the U.S. and its allies should send the most advanced weapons they can part with to Ukraine. That included advanced aircraft, drones and missiles with ranges over 62 miles (100 kilometers), such as the Army Tactical Missile System. Those weapons would do a better job positioning Kyiv to repel Moscow’s troops, Cavoli said.
The general, who serves as both the supreme allied commander for Europe and as head of U.S. European Command, argued that Ukraine needs more advanced weapons and equipment to “enhance the deep fight,” per one of five people. A second person said Cavoli believes the West should equip Ukraine to “reach further” into Russian positions within Ukraine’s border.
Either Gen. Cavoli very badly spoke out of turn, or he was prepping US lawmakers for big news when President Biden meets with Zelensky on the anniversary of the invasion on the 24th.
I've been saying that I believe that President Biden will announce some combo of:
- F-16s
- ATACMS
- A large number of Bradleys and Strykers
I believe that more than ever now. There are several reasons:
1) Russia's "big offensive" is already showing itself to be a nothingburger. I'm reading more military experts who are saying that Russia is just exhausting resources and making itself more vulnerable when Ukraine attacks this spring. Everyone loves a winner, and Ukraine is looking more and more like a winner in this conflict.
2) The start of the Presidential campaign means that Biden will be under increasing pressure for Ukraine to win the war. If the war degenerates into a stalemate, and Russia ends up keeping some Ukrainian territory, the GOP will attack him as weak (which they are already doing with Afghanistan, with the balloon, etc.) President Biden needs for Ukraine to win. On the other hand, if Ukraine wins the war this year or at least takes back a large amount of territory, that will give Biden an accomplishment to brag about on the campaign trail.
3) Our European allies are not only fully on board, they are pushing us to make this step. The Dutch are openly saying that they will give F-16s if the US does too. As discussed, the British are already giving Ukraine long-range weapons. As we have repeatedly seen in this war, President Biden has attempted to keep US involvement in the center of NATO. It's a war in Europe, so we need to be in step with our European partners, neither too far out in front of them, nor lagging behind -- and we are now in danger of lagging behind and failing to support our friends.
A lot of people are deciding that a year of devastation is enough, and it's time to give Ukraine what we need to give them to win the war. I think that's what we're going to do.
Posted on 2/18/23 at 8:04 pm to GOP_Tiger
They can without a doubt be targeted but they do have an advantage in that they fly really low so it’s harder to get a radar signature off of it. But it really is the weapon you want to take out something like Kerch. When they go after Kerch they need to let loose on 10 simultaneously to not only help overwhelm their air defenses and ensure some get through and hit the target but this time you have to do it right and put both the rail and road bridges in the water.
Popular
Back to top


1




