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Posted on 1/15/23 at 12:56 pm to Lakeboy7
quote:
Sure there is, thats the way we want it.
That’s not what Trump said, and I agree with Trump. Europe needs to pay their share.
Posted on 1/15/23 at 1:02 pm to doubleb
quote:
Europe needs to pay their share.
And they will, the landscape has shifted dramatically for Europe in the last year.
Posted on 1/15/23 at 1:32 pm to Lakeboy7
Posted on 1/15/23 at 2:22 pm to Stidham8
quote:
Stidham8
Did you not notice that in the 4 months that you didn’t post in this thread that Ukraine liberated thousands of square kilometers of territory, drove the Russians out of the Kharkiv oblast, and liberated the only capital they captured duration the war. Meanwhile it took Russia > 6 months to advance < 20 km and captured an insignificant town.
Also how is the collapse of the eastern front going?
Posted on 1/15/23 at 2:44 pm to Lakeboy7
quote:
And they will, the landscape has shifted dramatically for Europe in the last year.
No they won’t
Why would they. We’re encouraging their bad behavior right now. Posted on 1/15/23 at 4:48 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
No they won’t Why would they. We’re encouraging their bad behavior right now.
The French have bigger balls than Germany but the bribed/let's make a deal politicians in Germany are beginning to fall. The Polish definitely have bigger ones.
FTR, Germany has not made or even kept friends in the EU with the way its banks lent money to other nations but purchases had to be only from German companies. Then the when they couldn't service the debt, German banks whined and whined.
Posted on 1/15/23 at 6:12 pm to CitizenK
I want to say there is no way Russia would do something stupid given this, but then again it is Russia
LINK
LINK
Geo confirmation
quote:
A Russian/Belarusian S-300 Air Defense Unit was spotted on the move earlier this week in the Belarusian City of Brest almost directly on the Border with Poland.
LINK
quote:
Belarusian and Z equipment seen in Brest, Belarus only a few km from the Polish border.
I spotted some S-300/400 i believe.
LINK
Geo confirmation
Posted on 1/15/23 at 6:46 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
What really needs to happen is that some European nations need to completely give up all their tanks in exchange for replacement Abrams tanks.
I think all that needs to happen is for Spain to give up their Leopards in exchange for Abrams. That would give Ukraine > 300 Leopards and Spain doesn't really need to worry about its defenses at the moment. It us safe from invasion and will be safe from invasion long enough for its forces to get and be trained to use Abrams.
ETA: I still think that the best thing for Ukraine in both the short and long run would be to stick with American equipment. Abrams tanks might use more fuel and need more maintenance than Leopards, but they would not be subject whims of Germany which we can see likes to drag its feet. Another option would be to increase the number of American forces in South Korea and get South Korea to send their recently modernized and upgraded 480 K1/A1 MBTs to Ukraine. That way after the war Ukraine can rebuild its forces and its defense industry building K2s under license like Poland and Turkey are doing.
This post was edited on 1/15/23 at 7:24 pm
Posted on 1/15/23 at 7:32 pm to WeeWee
Yes one country sending all the Leopards would be the best option but it’s almost certainly going to be a 50 here, 40 there, a dozen from this country, 25 from this one, etc…. with all being different versions of the Leopard 2. It seems like most countries have the Leopard 2A4 variant though so maybe this won’t be the case. Between Poland, Germany and Spain alone they should have no problem coming up with the 300 tanks that Ukraine is asking for. I still think all Soviet era tanks left in NATO stocks should take priority over the Leopards though unless Ukraine feels like they have enough tanks to hold the line or continue normal operations until crews can be properly trained on the Leopards. If they started training tomorrow a fast paced estimate would still most likely be late spring before they could field the Leopards on the battlefield.
Posted on 1/15/23 at 7:49 pm to LSUPilot07
I worry that Ukraine can't really use many more Soviet tanks because it doesn't have enough ammo for them.
But anyway, LINK
Hmm. I'm confident Spain is one of them, and that leaves two more. I think that Sweden, Denmark, Portugal, Canada, and Norway are the likely ones.
But anyway, LINK
quote:
Five countries are ready to transfer German-made Leopard-2 tanks to Ukraine, which Kyiv intends to form into a separate brigade, Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba told journalist Vadym Karpiak on Jan. 13.
“Our goal is to assemble a brigade from Leopard tanks,” Kuleba sad in the conversation Karpiak posted on Instagram.
“That’s for starters. Why Leopard? Because this is the tank that has been manufactured in Europe for decades, and is in service with many European armies.”
The minister recalled that Poland and Finland had already agreed to transfer this type of tank to Ukraine. He emphasized the importance of the decision made by the Polish government, which was the first to announce the transfer of 14 Leopard tanks to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
“And I know three other countries that are ready to do the same, but are holding off on the announcement,” he added.
“They want to be 100% sure that Germany will support the transfer.”
Hmm. I'm confident Spain is one of them, and that leaves two more. I think that Sweden, Denmark, Portugal, Canada, and Norway are the likely ones.
Posted on 1/15/23 at 7:53 pm to LSUPilot07
We might have bigger things to discuss in the near future.
Per my sauce(s) in Ukrainian intel even though the west discredits it they still feel like there is a decent chance that these exercises in Belarus are more than just a distraction. That’s why they have started pulling back around Bakhmut and aren’t stepping up counteroffensive operations in the east. I have not talked to my sauce(s) since the most recent missile attack, but I would assume that the ballistic missiles being launched from Belarus just increased that suspicion.
Also that Patriot missile battery would have come in real handy for the Ukrainians. When are the leaders in Washington, Paris, Berlin, etc are going to realize that when Ukraine says they need something that they need ASAP not in 6 months? Once again the Ukrainian civilians suffer because the west does too little too late.
quote:LINK
Russia and Belarus will hold a joint tactical flight exercise from January 16 to February 1. Belarus is accumulating Russian fighter jets, helicopters and cargo boards.
Per my sauce(s) in Ukrainian intel even though the west discredits it they still feel like there is a decent chance that these exercises in Belarus are more than just a distraction. That’s why they have started pulling back around Bakhmut and aren’t stepping up counteroffensive operations in the east. I have not talked to my sauce(s) since the most recent missile attack, but I would assume that the ballistic missiles being launched from Belarus just increased that suspicion.
Also that Patriot missile battery would have come in real handy for the Ukrainians. When are the leaders in Washington, Paris, Berlin, etc are going to realize that when Ukraine says they need something that they need ASAP not in 6 months? Once again the Ukrainian civilians suffer because the west does too little too late.
Posted on 1/15/23 at 7:56 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
I worry that Ukraine can't really use many more Soviet tanks because it doesn't have enough ammo for them.
That is a real concern but I don’t think it’s a major concern until later this year.
Posted on 1/15/23 at 8:09 pm to LSUPilot07
quote:
If they started training tomorrow a fast paced estimate would still most likely be late spring before they could field the Leopards on the battlefield.
What makes you think that they will start training any time soon? Yes late spring would be an ideal time for the Lepards to hit the battlefield. Unfortunately if past results can be used as a predictor of future results the Ukrainians will be lucky to have the Lepards on the battlefield by late summer.
Posted on 1/15/23 at 8:14 pm to WeeWee
quote:
Per my sauce(s) in Ukrainian intel even though the west discredits it they still feel like there is a decent chance that these exercises in Belarus are more than just a distraction.
I believe US intelligence probably has a good handle on the possibility of a push from the north. Any equipment Russia has moved there US intel knows where it came from and how likely it is to be fully operational or just old boneyard junk hollowed out but with a fresh coat of paint. They are almost certainly sharing it with the Ukes and probably some of our allies but what leaks out could be intentional misdirection. Everyone is using the information space to work the other side. On the other hand even if the Ukes were moving multiple division sized units all over Ukraine Russia would only know what they could gather from milbloggers, OSINT and their spies. They aren't going to have high def sat footage like the US will gather.
Posted on 1/15/23 at 8:16 pm to WeeWee
quote:
That is a real concern but I don’t think it’s a major concern until later this year.
Major concern is this war lasting any longer, bleeding the US tax payer.
Posted on 1/15/23 at 8:20 pm to momentoftruth87
quote:
Major concern is this war lasting any longer, bleeding the US tax payer.
Biotch please. Money for aid to Ukraine made up 3.33% of the recent omnibus spending bill.
Posted on 1/15/23 at 8:22 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
I believe US intelligence probably has a good handle on the possibility of a push from the north.
The US has intercepted and given the Ukies communications that suggests it’s a real possibility.
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