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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 11/3/22 at 10:27 am to
Posted by SlimTigerSlap
Member since Apr 2022
4313 posts
Posted on 11/3/22 at 10:27 am to
BBC

Good article on why Imran Khan was ousted.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39820 posts
Posted on 11/3/22 at 10:30 am to
quote:

Probably going to sound dumb compared to your understanding, but is this good for Pakistan? Good for us? Is he their Trump, with regards to in some sense fighting a “deep state” within his country and was ousted over it, now trying to come back?



Well, there are a lot of civilian leaders in Pakistan who have attempted to 'fight' their security state, with predictable results. From the US POV, the Pakistani security state is predicatable in what they want, and thus can be manipulated somewhat, while the disparate interests among the Pakistani populace are harder to predict and control. The accusation that occurs in popular media in Pakistan is that the Pakistani deep state is closely tied to American intelligence agencies.

quote:

Could this assassination attempt create real internal physical conflict? If so, partly from what I’ve learned from you, it seems external govts may have a vested interest in the outcome here. India, ME friends, Turkey, China?



That's hard to know. There has been consistent internal conflict inside Pakistan for years, from what amounts to a genocide on their Shia population by militants, with the government turning a blind eye, to internal repression campaigns in Baluchistan and the Northwest Frontier. India has a vested interest, which is why it has cultivated a close relationship with Iran as well as a close relationship with the former Afghan government. The Saudis, Turks, and others have competed in Pakistan as well, while the Pakistani elite often have their own plans that don't always come to fruition. One plan they had was trying to become a pipeline hub in the Indian Ocean by building pipelines from Central Asian countries to Karachi, in the 1990's. But that backfired when those Central Asian countries discovered that ISI had their fingerprints on some native Islamist movements.

Whether this is a precursor to a larger conflict is a possibility, but Pakistani politics is always chaotic, so it is hard to say that this will be the final straw. Most governments abroad, save for India, are more comfortable with the Pakistan security state than they are with some other option, for the same reasons I mentioned earlier.

Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
15769 posts
Posted on 11/3/22 at 10:38 am to
quote:

But he is also Pashtun, and is thus regarded as an outsider to the Punjabi elite, who are extremely wary of Pashtun nationalism displacing their important status in Pakistan.


If I am not mistaken the Pashtun don't really recognize the border with Afghanistan and move to and fro in its own tribal area which is in both nations. Taliban comes out of the Pashtun area, so pretty much the same
Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5180 posts
Posted on 11/3/22 at 10:38 am to
quote:

The accusation that occurs in popular media in Pakistan is that the Pakistani deep state is closely tied to American intelligence agencies.


Part of my thought process considering they harbored OBL for an unknown lengthy time while receiving and continue to receive hundreds of millions in US aid.

quote:

Whether this is a precursor to a larger conflict is a possibility, but Pakistani politics is always chaotic, so it is hard to say that this will be the final straw. Most governments abroad, save for India, are more comfortable with the Pakistan security state than they are with some other option, for the same reasons I mentioned earlier.


Thank you for your responses in trying to help me make sense of something that was chaotic before todays chaos.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39820 posts
Posted on 11/3/22 at 10:47 am to
quote:

Part of my thought process considering they harbored OBL for an unknown lengthy time while receiving and continue to receive hundreds of millions in US aid.



I think I explained this in another post a long time ago, but the political situation is even more complicated because there are factions inside the security state itself. One of the stated reasons that the US didn't warn the Pakistani civilian government about the OBL raid was that they didn't want to burn or possibly reveal one of their sources, who was inside ISI.

Arguably the Partition of India itself was done due to the interests of the Punjabi Muslims. That fact probably kept India from being a superpower from an earlier time period, as if the Indian independence movement won at an earlier point, the British Raj and any polity that existed after would likely have the same borders. It served Western interests, specifically British interests, to have the subcontinent split along religious lines, even though there is a large Muslim population inside India itself.
Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5180 posts
Posted on 11/3/22 at 10:50 am to
quote:

Good article on why Imran Khan was ousted.


Interesting. Thank you. From the article:

quote:

'International conspiracy'

Mr Khan has previously said he would not recognise an opposition government, claiming that there was a US-led conspiracy to remove him because of his refusal to stand with Washington on issues against Russia and China.

He has repeatedly said that Pakistan's opposition parties are working with foreign powers. Members of his party (PTI) left the building just ahead of the vote, also insisting he was the victim of an international conspiracy.

The US has said there is "no truth" in these allegations, and Mr Khan has never provided any evidence.


quote:

The reason his position appeared so secure, however, also helps explain his downfall. Both sides deny it, but it's widely acknowledged he came to power with the help of Pakistan's powerful army and intelligence services - and now he has fallen out with them.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
20974 posts
Posted on 11/3/22 at 10:50 am to
As it concerns Ukraine, Pakistan has a manufacturing facility for 152mm artillery shells, and the UK has periodically sent cargo planes to Pakistan to pick up some and deliver it to Ukraine. The Brits buying ammo for Ukraine under the table from Pakistan has largely benn unremarked upon in the media.

I am not sure how Khan's return to power might affect that.
Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5180 posts
Posted on 11/3/22 at 10:59 am to
quote:

I think I explained this in another post a long time ago, but the political situation is even more complicated because there are factions inside the security state itself. One of the stated reasons that the US didn't warn the Pakistani civilian government about the OBL raid was that they didn't want to burn or possibly reveal one of their sources, who was inside ISI.


I’m decently sure you have because now that you say it I remember it and I doubt any other poster on this board has that insight and has shared it.
Posted by DJFord
Arabi
Member since Oct 2022
458 posts
Posted on 11/3/22 at 11:03 am to
quote:

The Russian invasion was supposed to overthrow the Zelensky government, stop fascism in Ukraine, bring Ukraine back into Russia’s sphere of influence, and now it is supposed to stop homosexuality in Ukraine. However in reality, the war has strengthened Zelensky standing in Ukraine and solidified his government, increased fascism in Russia, permanently alienated the Ukrainian people against Russia, and brought Ukraine closer to the west and further from Russia so the legalization of same sex marriage in Ukraine would just be another example of how the opposite of Russia failing miserably.


And added two bordering nations to NATO and set a clear path for Ukraine into the EU.

Putin -> Winning!!!
Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5180 posts
Posted on 11/3/22 at 11:04 am to
quote:

As it concerns Ukraine, Pakistan has a manufacturing facility for 152mm artillery shells, and the UK has periodically sent cargo planes to Pakistan to pick up some and deliver it to Ukraine. The Brits buying ammo for Ukraine under the table from Pakistan has largely benn unremarked upon in the media.

I am not sure how Khan's return to power might affect that.


I knew someone smarter than me ITT could tie this to Ukraine and it not be a totally left field topic
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
15769 posts
Posted on 11/3/22 at 12:26 pm to
Just a correction of a comment of mine about a client CEO being in Kazakhstan to handle setting up companies for his Russian Oligarch owner in early March and being there for a few months. We talked today and he has not returned to Houston as expected. He has been in Kyrgyzstan, NOT Kazakhstan all this time.
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8170 posts
Posted on 11/3/22 at 1:23 pm to
A good thread from Michael Kofman
https://twitter.com/KofmanMichael/status/1588160941665189888

quote:

A few thoughts on the current course of the war, and some impressions after a recent visit to Ukraine with several colleagues from the mil analysis community, including areas near the front in Kherson. /1

The general sense one gets is that Ukraine is winning the war & morale is high, but like any military operation, you see friction up close that you can’t from a distance. A fair bit of the UA effort is ground up, based on horizontal linkages, volunteers, apps, etc. 2/

Russia’s military appears at its most vulnerable going into the winter, but UA has seen some modest impact from RU mobilization. Troops are being deployed to try and stabilize Russian lines, and increase force density relative to terrain. 3/

The situation in Kherson is clear as mud. Russian forces seemed to withdraw from some parts, evacuated, and drew down, but also reinforced with mobilized personnel. The fighting there is difficult. Despite constrained supply, Russian forces do not appear to be out of ammo. 4/

I think this is a fog of war issue right now, with contradictory indicators, but to me the preponderance of evidence points to a Russian decision to steadily retreat from the right river bank and avoid being cut off there, while also trying to exact a high cost. 5/

UA folks I spoke to seemed optimistic they can press Russia out of Kherson (west of the river) by the end of the year. There are outstanding questions about the Khakovka dam, and whether RU might sabotage it upon withdrawal. This issue is more salient than talk of RDDs. 6/

Still, it remains unclear whether RU intends to fight for Kherson city, perhaps using more expendable or mobilized units while preserving better troops. I'm skeptical RU will abandon all positions on that side without being forcibly pressed out, but could be wrong on this. 7/

Forcing a Russian retreat from Kherson’s right bank will bring UA systems within range of some ground lines of communication from Crimea. But, it will also give RU forces a large natural barrier, less terrain to defend, and a higher force density to terrain ratio. 8/

Overall, it seems unlikely that the war will die down over the winter, even if some months make offensive operations challenging. UA will likely leverage its advantage in range and precision to attrit the Russian military over this period. 9/

Strikes across Ukraine are leading to blackouts and electricity conservation. UA is resolving these blackouts quickly, and if anything the bombardment campaign bolsters resolve, but over time the challenges from these strikes could mount, straining equipment and ADS ammo. 10/

I’ve been dismissive of the Belarus vector, despite recent RU deployments there. But the situation merits tracking over the coming months if numbers of Russian troops grow and they are provided heavy equipment. 11/

Mobilization, and its potential downstream effect 3-4 months from now introduces a degree of uncertainty. It could extend the war, or make future UA offensives more costly, but I think UA is preparing for a range of possibilities depending on what mobilization yields. 12/

On mobilization I largely hold to the thoughts in this earlier thread. It seems RU is taking a staggered approach, throwing some mobilized personnel with little training to stabilize lines, but holding many back to reconstitute units or form reserves.
https://twitter.com/KofmanMichael/status/1572573108246286336?s=20&t=FIbVVthKhVGQw5BY68ywrQ
13/

RU strategy appears to be focused on defense over the winter, hoping that mobilization can rebuild their forces. If the pressure lets up they will use the time to get more equipment out of storage (including from Belarus) & potentially ammo from sources like DPRK. 14/

In the east RU forces appear desperate to hold the Troitske-Svatove-Kreminna line and are trying to dig in for the winter. Here a UA breakout could prove significant. In general it seems RU approach is to try and fix a defensible line and hope to maintain over the winter. 15/

UA objectives are likely to prevent Russian force reconstitution over the winter, generate additional forces in the interim (which requires more equipment), and acquire air defenses to reduce the threat from the Russian strike campaign against critical infrastructure. 16/
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
20974 posts
Posted on 11/3/22 at 2:15 pm to
From the Associated Press:

quote:

SOFIA, Bulgaria -- A majority of Bulgaria's lawmakers on Thursday approved sending the country's first military aid to Ukraine.

The National Assembly voted 175-49 with one abstention in favor of a proposal submitted by four pro-European Union parties. The government has now one month to decide what kind of weapons Bulgaria can provide without affecting its own defense capabilities.

Bulgaria previously agreed to repair Ukrainian military equipment at its factories but refused to send weapons directly due to opposition from President Rumen Radev and the country's Moscow-friendly political parties.

Along with Hungary, Bulgaria was the only EU member country that had declined to give Ukraine weapons as it fights Russia's invasion and war.

“More weapons mean more war,” Bulgarian Socialist Party leader Kornelia Ninova said, explaining why her party's lawmakers voted against the proposal.

The heated debate that preceded the vote reflected the divisions in Bulgaria since Russia invaded its neighbor.

Even though the country belongs to both NATO and the EU, many Bulgarians harbor strong sympathies for Russia that are rooted in a history, culture, and religion. Bulgaria also relies heavily on Russian energy supplies.

The pro-Russian nationalist Vazrazhdane Party called on its supporters to gather in front of the parliament building to protest the military aid for Ukraine, saying the aid “pushes the country into war.”
Posted by kengel2
Team Gun
Member since Mar 2004
33740 posts
Posted on 11/3/22 at 4:07 pm to
LINK

View from the ATGM team from video I posted yesterday.
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8170 posts
Posted on 11/3/22 at 4:58 pm to
I wonder what happened to BrianKellyRespector, Ruff Fish, and Lima Whiskey. Did they get mobilized or did they get fired for not changing our minds about Ukraine?

If they got mobilized, I truly hope they survive.

Last post by each
BKR: 10/25/2022
Ruff Fish: 10/11/2022 In this thread 9/7/2022
Lima Whiskey: 7/26/2022 In this thread 7/23/2022
This post was edited on 11/3/22 at 5:05 pm
Posted by Lakeboy7
New Orleans
Member since Jul 2011
28324 posts
Posted on 11/3/22 at 5:10 pm to
quote:

View from the ATGM team from video I posted yesterday.



I dont speak Russian but when they send the round out its "yeah mother fricker"
Posted by No Colors
Sandbar
Member since Sep 2010
13343 posts
Posted on 11/3/22 at 5:25 pm to
Seldom Seen hasn't posted since his army got turned back at the gates of Kiev.
Posted by Obtuse1
Westside Bodymore Yo
Member since Sep 2016
30523 posts
Posted on 11/3/22 at 5:29 pm to
quote:

BKR, Ruff Fish. and Lima Whiskey


Translated into Russian that says full-strength combat platoon.

They are equipped with 2 AKs, 4 magazines, 30 rounds, 1 grenade, 1 sleeping bag, 3 socks, and a tactical radio from Amazon.
Posted by MountainTiger
The foot of Mt. Belzoni
Member since Dec 2008
14958 posts
Posted on 11/3/22 at 5:29 pm to
Here's a video that says Russia destroyed a Chechen special forces battalion in a friendly fire incident.
LINK
Posted by Jim Rockford
Member since May 2011
105316 posts
Posted on 11/3/22 at 7:15 pm to
The poliboard is celebrating Netanyahu's apparent victory. Should we tell them he favors aid to Ukraine?
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