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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 11/1/22 at 9:20 am to
Posted by Athanatos
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
8194 posts
Posted on 11/1/22 at 9:20 am to
I think a lot of people would like to see America cede influence globally and return to the non-interventionist policies of the 19th century. They probably rejoiced at the botched departure from Afghanistan.

Nevertheless, Europe is not Afghanistan, and Europe is a safer, more stable region as a result of US engagement. I don’t see any reason that this policy of engagement should not continue. If as part of that engagement, Ukraine requests material support, the US should continue to provide it as long as it continues to achieve broader US goals.
Posted by TBoy
Kalamazoo
Member since Dec 2007
28602 posts
Posted on 11/1/22 at 9:29 am to
quote:

At the time Trump increased our military aid, I had the impression that he did more to help Ukraine defend themselves than what Obama had done in response to the Russian takeover of Crimea and invasion of E Ukraine.

The Obama administration's response was internationally coordinated sanctions against Russia and military training, but not offensive weapons. It was clear that Obama did not want to engage in any direct military confrontation with Russia over Crimea. Trump softened the sanctions but changed some of the aid to useful weapons.

They were different approaches. It's interesting that the Russian propagandists (from their comments the other day) considered Trump to be more favorable to Russia because the weapons provided during the previous administration were very useful once the latest invasion began.

But let's get back to today.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
15772 posts
Posted on 11/1/22 at 9:35 am to
quote:

our biolabs only mere miles from the Russian border creating weaponized virus birds


Mosquitos not birds, unless birds are the new claim
Posted by notiger1997
Metairie
Member since May 2009
61723 posts
Posted on 11/1/22 at 9:47 am to
quote:

our biolabs only mere miles from the Russian border creating weaponized virus birds,


It’s strange how Russia hasn’t been able to produce video and any real propaganda about these bio labs when they took over these areas this spring/summer
Posted by SDVTiger
Cabo San Lucas
Member since Nov 2011
98289 posts
Posted on 11/1/22 at 9:52 am to
quote:

Is “they” Russia????


Yes they say theyvare reaching out to make a deal like they already had

quote:

We haven’t pushed anything


Just stop
Posted by Palantir
I've been a Columbia House
Member since Oct 2020
691 posts
Posted on 11/1/22 at 9:59 am to
quote:

Mosquitos not birds, unless birds are the new claim
Actually virus birds was the first claim...mosquitos are new
This post was edited on 11/1/22 at 10:01 am
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42651 posts
Posted on 11/1/22 at 10:25 am to
quote:

We haven’t pushed anything Just stop


Russia has been fighting in Ukraine since 2014. We didn’t a large amount of aid until their February “mission”.

Russia ratcheted/pushed things to a higher level. Stop making out as if Russia was dragged into a war. It’s a war they started.
Posted by SDVTiger
Cabo San Lucas
Member since Nov 2011
98289 posts
Posted on 11/1/22 at 10:28 am to
quote:

Russia ratcheted/pushed things to a higher level. Stop making out as if Russia was dragged into a war. It’s a war they started.



All i said was we can negotiate a peace deal and Russia is looking for one

Its weird how you cant stay on topic

So why is it that we dont want that?
Posted by lowspark12
nashville, tn
Member since Aug 2009
22582 posts
Posted on 11/1/22 at 10:34 am to
Ask yourself…. Why is Russia looking for a peace deal?… then ask yourself, why would Ukraine want a peace deal?
Posted by ImaObserver
Member since Aug 2019
2503 posts
Posted on 11/1/22 at 10:53 am to
quote:

Ask yourself…. Why is Russia looking for a peace deal?… then ask yourself, why would Ukraine want a peace deal?

Obviously, on both questions he would have difficulty understanding the answer he gave himself.
This post was edited on 11/1/22 at 10:54 am
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42651 posts
Posted on 11/1/22 at 10:53 am to
quote:

All i said was we can negotiate a peace deal and Russia is looking for one


Link to recent Russian statements indicating they are trying to get a peace deal now.
I’m confused because I thought Putin just said the opposite.

But maybe he changed his mind. He floats a lot of ideas for effect.
Posted by AGGIES
Member since Jul 2021
12408 posts
Posted on 11/1/22 at 10:55 am to
Last time Russia talked about a peace deal, it was dependent on Russia keeping territory located within Ukraine’s borders, which Ukraine is currently fighting to get back.

So Russia wants to end hostilities after they just bombed the hell out of Ukraine? Nah…

Ukraine wants their territory back. Also, Ukraine most likely wants to destroy Russia’s army NOW so that this dispute doesn’t happen again.

Has something changed in the terms Russia is willing to offer?
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
15772 posts
Posted on 11/1/22 at 10:56 am to
I checked Marine Traffic and find lots of Turkish GENERAL CARGO ships going to and from Ukraine. These are not to haul grain but crates and the like.

Interesting discussion with a biz friend who I often partner with on large deals. He has received over 20 inquiries from Turkey and Ukraine for seed oil processing equipment in the last two days. Another friend (Persian) who was a trader from Bunge in Switzerland in seed oils told me last week that Turkish companies own most of the sunflower seed oil plants in Ukraine.
Posted by Jim Rockford
Member since May 2011
105316 posts
Posted on 11/1/22 at 10:58 am to
Lavrov made some new vague statements the other day that could mean literally anything
Posted by notiger1997
Metairie
Member since May 2009
61723 posts
Posted on 11/1/22 at 10:59 am to
quote:

All i said was we can negotiate a peace deal and Russia is looking for one


LOL
Posted by lowspark12
nashville, tn
Member since Aug 2009
22582 posts
Posted on 11/1/22 at 11:02 am to
Lavrov in February also said Russia would not invade ukriane.

You can’t trust Russia when it comes to negotiations… they are as committed as ever to winning in ukriane. There really isn’t much to discuss now.
Posted by SwampGar
Texas
Member since Jan 2020
1482 posts
Posted on 11/1/22 at 11:30 am to
quote:

VGTRK runs all the state TV and radio channels and is obviously state-controlled. The reach of their news channel is akin to ABC/NBC/CBS/FOX/CNN and MSNBC all rolled into one in terms of percentage viewers. Yes, this is the "normal" every day news channel for Russians. Solovyov (the man in the Mandarin collared suits) is a significant voice in Russian news along with Olga Skabeeva. I think what you are actually asking is are the clips from some cable news channel with a minority audience AKA kinda fringe. The answer is no, more like Walter Cronkite in his day.


Ok, this is exactly what I had been imagining, but I wanted to make sure my understanding was correct. Appreciate the response.
Posted by DJFord
Arabi
Member since Oct 2022
458 posts
Posted on 11/1/22 at 12:17 pm to
There is no such thing as “Russian Diplomacy” under Putin only lies and disinformation and all talks of peace months ago and now is BS. This from a 20 year Russian Diplomat Boris Bondarev who resigned his post in May.


quote:

“The attack on Ukraine has made Russian diplomacy virtually impossible in any practical sense,” Bondarev told Current Time, the Russian-language network run by RFE/RL in cooperation with VOA.

“For me, [the war] was absolutely unimaginable, and I realized that it goes against everything that Russian diplomats should do.”

Bondarev made international headlines when he quit in protest over the Kremlin’s February 24 invasion of Ukraine. Since then, he has issued a broad condemnation of Russian leadership over the past two decades under President Vladimir Putin, whose autocratic rule he blames for having transformed the diplomatic service into one deluded by its own propaganda and isolated on the global stage.

“I observed the evolving decline in our diplomacy [and] its slide into an abyss of provocations and lies,” he said. “But still, until there was war and until blood was shed, I -- like many of my colleagues -- believed that I could still work.”

According to Bondarev, diplomats who cabled assertions and talking points that had been echoed across Russian propaganda networks back to Moscow were rewarded, while those who challenged assumptions and questioned the official line were suppressed. He credits this willful blindness as helping to breed to a culture that allowed for the Kremlin’s miscalculations that led to its war with Ukraine, where it predicted a quick victory over Kyiv but instead suffered heavy casualties and continues to face embarrassing setbacks on the battlefield.

“The further this went on, the more it became clear that [Putin] was becoming the main target of all this [aggressive] Foreign Ministry rhetoric,” Bondarev said. “This works [against] Russian diplomacy, as [other diplomats] don’t want to communicate with people who talk like thugs and hooligans. But this vocabulary was encouraged, as apparently the main customer -- [Putin] -- likes it.”


quote:

The former Russian diplomat also provided a fuller account of his decision to resign and his experiences over the course of his two-decade career in a 6,500-word essay that was published in Foreign Affairs magazine in October.



LINK

Here he talks about any proposed peace deal:

quote:

Nick Schifrin: Ukraine says that, as of right now, it doesn't want to negotiate with Vladimir Putin. And you seem to agree in your essay. You say that Russia would use any cease-fire or any stopping of the war to rearm. And you write the Putin must experience a — quote — "comprehensive rout in Ukraine." Why?

Boris Bondarev: As long as he's still winning the war or he can present it that he is winning the war, he will still keep power and his course of war of aggression will be forever. It's not about Putin himself. It's about changing this course of aggression. It's about changing the course of our policy, which would lead to change the government system. And that means that the entire political regime impersonated by Mr. Putin must go. And only the major military defeat in Ukraine, in my mind, can make people realize that enough is enough.


LINK
This post was edited on 11/1/22 at 12:18 pm
Posted by kengel2
Team Gun
Member since Mar 2004
33740 posts
Posted on 11/1/22 at 1:00 pm to
PTI: there is an absolutely brutal video on Reddit. If you don't like the Russians you'll like the video.

I don't get how these dudes are still fighting. These drones are brutal. I'd never sleep outside again.
Posted by BoardReader
Arkansas
Member since Dec 2007
7401 posts
Posted on 11/1/22 at 1:17 pm to
quote:

All i said was we can negotiate a peace deal and Russia is looking for one

Its weird how you cant stay on topic

So why is it that we dont want that?


Because the Russian idea of a deal is 'You give us what we want and we go away', not 'We frick off back home and get nothing'.

Until that fundamentally changes, or the situation on the battlefield does, everyone's going to be disappointed in diplomatic efforts to close matters.
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