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Started By
Message
re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 8/8/22 at 11:33 am to GeauxxxTigers23
Posted on 8/8/22 at 11:33 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
quote:
its extermination as an independent sovereign was the goal.
That has never been a stated goal. I don’t know where that idea even comes from.
LINK
quote:
Eight years of conflict between Ukraine and the separatist republics was paralleled by a Russian propaganda campaign that portrayed Ukraine as a neo-Nazi fascist state and a puppet of NATO; this provided the ideological justification for the war. In July 2021, Putin asserted in a personally written article that Russians, Ukrainians, and Belarusians were one nation. Later, former Russian president and current security council deputy Dmitry Medvedev disparaged Ukraine’s government as illegitimate and claimed that it was senseless for Moscow to negotiate with Kyiv.[4] By the end of 2021, official Russian policy mirrored Putin’s informal remark that Ukraine was not a real country and therefore had no right to exist.
When he started what was euphemistically named a “special military operation” on February 24, 2022, Putin proclaimed Russia’s objectives as the “denazification and demilitarization” of Ukraine. Using templates from Czechoslovakia in 1968 and Afghanistan in 1979, he apparently expected his armed forces and intelligence services to accomplish a coup de main by seizing Kyiv and installing a compliant government of Russian collaborators. Putin presented Russia as an aggrieved party forced into war by a West seeking global dominance and a criminal Ukrainian regime attempting genocide in the breakaway republics, which had just declared independence. He insisted that Russia had no territorial ambitions and that his policy in Ukraine was to free the people of Ukraine who were kidnapped by their own government.
However, the Russian offensive quickly stalled and was unable to seize either Kyiv or Kharkiv. By early April, Russian forces were withdrawing from near Kyiv and redeploying to the Donetsk People’s Republic and Luhansk People’s Republic. Once it became clear that Moscow could not achieve its initial war aims, political objectives shrank in proportion to the diminished capabilities of the Russian military. The new course was announced by security council chief Nikolai Patrushev in an April 26 interview with Rossiyskaya Gazeta, the official Russian government newspaper, when he stated that Ukraine’s hatred of Russia would cause it to disintegrate into several states.
1
Posted on 8/8/22 at 11:35 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:I said extinction as an independent sovereign, not total extinction.
I’m sure Russia would have been fine with taking Kyiv and turning Ukraine into a proxy vassal state. That’s not the same as extinction.
Posted on 8/8/22 at 11:36 am to WDE24
quote:
I said extinction as an independent sovereign, not total extinction.
Oh Lord. Are we about to get back into a pages long debate about the word "Sovereign" again
Posted on 8/8/22 at 11:41 am to OMLandshark
quote:
A) Feeling encroached by NATO.
If he’s feeling encroached by NATO, then why isn’t he invading the Baltic region, who are either already a part of NATO, or changing their historical foreign policy on being neutral, to become a part of NATO? Also if this is the reason for the invasion, then they won’t stop until all of Ukraine is under Russian rule. They said they just wanted Crimea. Then they said they just wanted Donbas and Donetsk regions, but they tried to invade Kyiv and Western parts of Ukraine.
quote:
B) Wanting to reestablish Soviet dominance.
I believe this to be somewhat true. I don’t think their goals are to go all the way to Berlin again, but they want the original USSR back together; Ukraine, Belarus, and the South Caucasus, or at least under Russian influence, and not Western influence.
Posted on 8/8/22 at 11:45 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
They lose millions of people, gain billions of dollars...
In the long run, it may be. I think Zelensky is as much a fundraiser as anything else. We've already sent them a third of their annual GDP.
Exactly, they stole our lunch money.
Posted on 8/8/22 at 11:56 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
We've already sent them a third of their annual GDP.
quote:
Ukranian GDP runs from 130B to 200B (last year) and we've given about 55 billion in aid.
You have clearly never read how the allocation of the $60 million is split, and do not know where we are at in the transfer of the funds.
If I ask you a simple question like that your nuts are already in a vice.
Posted on 8/8/22 at 11:57 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
I still believe Russia will take everything East of the Dnipre and call it a day.
So - Kharkiv and then on to take half of Kyiv? Why not all of Kyiv? They've done so well in those places already. You must expect Putin to change his mind about full mobilization. 200k troops are not going to make gains on the current battlefield.
Posted on 8/8/22 at 11:59 am to cypher
quote:
The mayor added that last night was the most productive one for the Ukrainian troops in the region; Russian air defence systems are no longer capable of withstanding the Ukrainian HIMARS attacks
Posted on 8/8/22 at 12:00 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
You have clearly never read how the allocation of the $60 million is split,
We've sent them over 50B in aid, regardless of how its split, which is a third of their normal GDP.
Posted on 8/8/22 at 12:01 pm to sta4ever
quote:
Then they said they just wanted Donbas and Donetsk regions, but they tried to invade Kyiv and Western parts of Ukraine.
Honestly this is the part that has always confused me. If we can remember all the way back to when all this started, they said they were just gonna liberate LPR and DPR areas and the world was like "hmmmm" but didn't react to it (i.e. no sanctions or aid). Then they didn't just focus on that and then all the sanction and aid happened. The part that confuses me is that they literally just could have focused on this area and called it a day and the world wouldn't have reacted like it did. Plus they could have had a stronger foothold.
Posted on 8/8/22 at 12:01 pm to Pfft
quote:
Exactly, they stole our lunch money.
He's got the American govt by the nuts, apparently.
You'd think Germany might be more interested than we, considering their location.
Posted on 8/8/22 at 12:07 pm to StormyMcMan
quote:
Eight years of conflict between Ukraine and the separatist republics was paralleled by a Russian propaganda campaign that portrayed Ukraine as a neo-Nazi fascist state and a puppet of NATO; this provided the ideological justification for the war. In July 2021, Putin asserted in a personally written article that Russians, Ukrainians, and Belarusians were one nation. Later, former Russian president and current security council deputy Dmitry Medvedev disparaged Ukraine’s government as illegitimate and claimed that it was senseless for Moscow to negotiate with Kyiv.[4] By the end of 2021, official Russian policy mirrored Putin’s informal remark that Ukraine was not a real country and therefore had no right to exist.
Putin's speech just prior to the outbreak of the war echoed this, blamed Lenin for creating the state of Ukraine such as it was, implying that as it was a Russian colony prior to the the Revolution that it rightfully would be again. They've been trying to stamp out the Ukrainian language in the occupied territories, "filtrating" women and children back to Russia, force-conscripting military age men of the Donbas, and brought in mobile crematoria to liquidate elites (they're now using these with the civilian population in Kherson).
Posted on 8/8/22 at 12:10 pm to RLDSC FAN
Assistance for Ukraine
Aug. 8, 2022
Attributed to Acting Pentagon Press Secretary Todd Breasseale:
Today, the Department of Defense (DoD) announces the authorization of a Presidential Drawdown of security assistance valued at up to $1 billion to meet Ukraine’s critical security and defense needs. This authorization is the Biden Administration’s eighteenth drawdown of equipment from DoD inventories for Ukraine since August 2021. It is the largest single drawdown of U.S. arms and equipment utilizing this authority, and this package provides a significant amount of additional ammunition, weapons, and equipment - the types of which the Ukrainian people are using so effectively to defend their country.
Capabilities in this package include:
Additional ammunition for High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS);
75,000 rounds of 155mm artillery ammunition;
20 120mm mortar systems and 20,000 rounds of 120mm mortar ammunition;
Munitions for National Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile Systems (NASAMS);
1,000 Javelin and hundreds of AT4 anti-armor systems;
50 armored medical treatment vehicles;
Claymore anti-personnel munitions;
C-4 explosives, demolition munitions, and demolition equipment;
Medical supplies, to include first aid kits, bandages, monitors, and other equipment.
In total, the United States has now committed approximately $9.8 billion in security assistance to Ukraine since the beginning of the Biden Administration. Since 2014, the United States has committed more than $11.8 billion in security assistance to Ukraine.
To meet Ukraine’s evolving battlefield requirements, the United States will continue to work with its Allies and partners to provide Ukraine with key capabilities calibrated to make a difference.
Aug. 8, 2022
Attributed to Acting Pentagon Press Secretary Todd Breasseale:
Today, the Department of Defense (DoD) announces the authorization of a Presidential Drawdown of security assistance valued at up to $1 billion to meet Ukraine’s critical security and defense needs. This authorization is the Biden Administration’s eighteenth drawdown of equipment from DoD inventories for Ukraine since August 2021. It is the largest single drawdown of U.S. arms and equipment utilizing this authority, and this package provides a significant amount of additional ammunition, weapons, and equipment - the types of which the Ukrainian people are using so effectively to defend their country.
Capabilities in this package include:
Additional ammunition for High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS);
75,000 rounds of 155mm artillery ammunition;
20 120mm mortar systems and 20,000 rounds of 120mm mortar ammunition;
Munitions for National Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile Systems (NASAMS);
1,000 Javelin and hundreds of AT4 anti-armor systems;
50 armored medical treatment vehicles;
Claymore anti-personnel munitions;
C-4 explosives, demolition munitions, and demolition equipment;
Medical supplies, to include first aid kits, bandages, monitors, and other equipment.
In total, the United States has now committed approximately $9.8 billion in security assistance to Ukraine since the beginning of the Biden Administration. Since 2014, the United States has committed more than $11.8 billion in security assistance to Ukraine.
To meet Ukraine’s evolving battlefield requirements, the United States will continue to work with its Allies and partners to provide Ukraine with key capabilities calibrated to make a difference.
Posted on 8/8/22 at 12:12 pm to StormyMcMan
quote:
The part that confuses me is that they literally just could have focused on this area and called it a day and the world wouldn't have reacted like it did. Plus they could have had a stronger foothold.
As Putin has gotten more isolated in the Kremlin, he's become more and more subject to the "dictator's dilemma" by which tighter control yields increasingly bad incentives for underlings to bring you accurate information. The Russians at least at the higher level thought they had strong intrusion into Ukrainian government and you can see how their IC (particularly the FSB) was pushed aside and lots of arrests and firings that show that it didn't go to plan.
Posted on 8/8/22 at 12:22 pm to OMLandshark
Another 4.5 bil
What is the justification of this?
What is the justification of this?
Posted on 8/8/22 at 12:28 pm to StormyMcMan
quote:
Honestly this is the part that has always confused me. If we can remember all the way back to when all this started, they said they were just gonna liberate LPR and DPR areas and the world was like "hmmmm" but didn't react to it (i.e. no sanctions or aid). Then they didn't just focus on that and then all the sanction and aid happened. The part that confuses me is that they literally just could have focused on this area and called it a day and the world wouldn't have reacted like it did. Plus they could have had a stronger foothold.
Just none of this makes any sense. There was no logical reason, to invade Ukraine, especially for Russia itself. This isn’t going to help them advance as a country or anything. I think it just proves that Russia today, hasn’t changed one bit, since the collapse of the USSR. They’re still the same today, as they were then. They still lie, are sneaky, spread disinformation, come up with fake reasons for invading a country, all this BS still goes on today. Just proves that whatever they say, is just a cover for what they really want. They come up with excuses to do what they want.
This post was edited on 8/8/22 at 12:33 pm
Posted on 8/8/22 at 12:31 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Ukranian GDP runs from 130B to 200B (last year) and we've given about 55 billion in aid.
Which is more than we spent in the first 5 years of Afghanistan.
I believe the Russians said they were coming for Alaska after the Ukraine so there is some justification coming from the Alaskan Democratic Senator with an R behind her name. Plus we need to protect you at all costs. We can't lose another poster.
This post was edited on 8/8/22 at 12:32 pm
Posted on 8/8/22 at 12:32 pm to SDVTiger
quote:
What is the justification of this?
Slush funds getting low..
Brother in laws gotta eat. Posted on 8/8/22 at 12:40 pm to sta4ever
quote:
They’re still the same today, as they were then. They still lie, are sneaky, spread disinformation, come up with fake reasons for invading a country, all this BS still goes on today. Just proves that whatever they say, is just a cover for what they really want. They come up with excuses to do what they want.
Glass houses and all
Posted on 8/8/22 at 12:44 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Glass houses and all
Oh yeah you’re right, I’m sorry. Russia, you can do whatever you want. We have no room to talk. Am I doing it right?
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