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Posted on 7/10/22 at 11:21 pm to OMLandshark
Peterson, who if I'm not mistaken is religious, briefly mentions the Russian Orthodox Church, but neglects the specifics...
The Russian Church, currently headed by the corrupt Patriarch Kirill, is complicit in the war by his unholy alliance with The Moth (Putin). Russia has been a theocratic kleptocracy for centuries, with the Russian Church supporting hardline czars in exchange for power and influence.
From Putin's perspective, the alliance is shrewd, though not novel. It adds support from the populace. As an authoritarian leader, having a mandate from God is a bit of added insurance against being deposed and replaced. Nothing new here, i.e., the politics of Christianity in Europe up until the renaissance. Mussolini aligned the fascist state with the Catholic Church, Hitler proclaimed himself a German Christian.
I suspect that Putin's Christian flavored nationalism and kleptocracy appeals to some American conservatives, hence the underlying rationale for many that support his aggression.
The Russian Church, currently headed by the corrupt Patriarch Kirill, is complicit in the war by his unholy alliance with The Moth (Putin). Russia has been a theocratic kleptocracy for centuries, with the Russian Church supporting hardline czars in exchange for power and influence.
From Putin's perspective, the alliance is shrewd, though not novel. It adds support from the populace. As an authoritarian leader, having a mandate from God is a bit of added insurance against being deposed and replaced. Nothing new here, i.e., the politics of Christianity in Europe up until the renaissance. Mussolini aligned the fascist state with the Catholic Church, Hitler proclaimed himself a German Christian.
I suspect that Putin's Christian flavored nationalism and kleptocracy appeals to some American conservatives, hence the underlying rationale for many that support his aggression.
This post was edited on 7/11/22 at 1:28 am
Posted on 7/10/22 at 11:28 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
US hostility drove Beijing and Moscow together, despite a long history of mutual hostility.
Are allies of convenience unprecedented or something? A long history of mutual hostility doesn't really mean much, because as Europe has made obvious, past hostility doesn't assure future hostility. Also the Sino-Soviet split happened in 1961 and lasted effectively for 30 years. There has been a policy of rapprochement since 1991. And what evidence is there of some deep degree of hostility that cannot be overcome? Some border conflicts from 4 centuries ago? Or the Sino-Soviet conflicts of the 20's? Those were easily overcome when the Soviets supported the CCP during the Chinese Civil War. Elevated tensions in the 60's?
quote:
And there was nothing inevitable about it. Going back in time, analysts in the late 80s and early 90s would have called it an unlikely scenario, because relations were so poor.
Things change.
quote:
The whole thing points to just how dumb the policy makers in Washington are. And to much power the Eastern European exiles in the bureaucracy have. (They’re driven by their grandparents old grudges.)
Maybe what's dumb is to assume hostility between two states for no real reason and then assume those relations cannot change. Things exist outside of the US's vacuum. The problem with US analysts is that they privilege explanations they find convenient, like you are doing here.
This post was edited on 7/10/22 at 11:33 pm
Posted on 7/10/22 at 11:31 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
No, because we were able to take China away from Russia in the 70s with Nixon going to China. I don’t think we’d be able to do it the way Peterson is saying, but we did it once we could do it again from the other angle. Maybe being able to use the Russian Orthodox Church to our advantage to take them away from China is my best guess.
But the Sino-Soviet split happened a decade before Nixon went to China. And this rivalry didn't seem to affect both the USSR and the CCP supporting the North Vietnamese into the 70's. This is some nonsense man.
Posted on 7/10/22 at 11:34 pm to crazy4lsu
(no message)
This post was edited on 6/16/26 at 1:18 pm
Posted on 7/10/22 at 11:36 pm to OMLandshark
Did you know that the Soviets asked to join NATO in 1954-1955? Of course they were turned down and then they formed the Warsaw Pact a few days later.
Russia would never have met requirements for NATO membership in the 90's or 2000's. One of the biggest is “a functioning democratic political system based on a market economy.”
Another big one that’s particularly relevant is “a commitment to the peaceful resolution of conflicts.”
Russia was involved in two civil wars with Chechnya at the time and it sponsored a conflict in Moldova while interfering with its sovereignty.
Russia would have agreed to let NATO in part dictate its military planning. That would have posed a problem also.
Russia would never have met requirements for NATO membership in the 90's or 2000's. One of the biggest is “a functioning democratic political system based on a market economy.”
Another big one that’s particularly relevant is “a commitment to the peaceful resolution of conflicts.”
Russia was involved in two civil wars with Chechnya at the time and it sponsored a conflict in Moldova while interfering with its sovereignty.
Russia would have agreed to let NATO in part dictate its military planning. That would have posed a problem also.
Posted on 7/10/22 at 11:40 pm to AU86
quote:Time to kick out the USA then.
Another big one that’s particularly relevant is “a commitment to the peaceful resolution of conflicts.”
Posted on 7/10/22 at 11:40 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Possibly, but before Lenin, Russia was far more connected with the West than China. I just think a master tactician could do it, but I don’t have the concrete answers. I do think it was possible.
Well this isn't a video game. There are no master tacticians. It wasn't possible.
And Russia is far more connected with Europe and that is the reason the Russian elite are worried. That connection didn't spare conflict with the West. In fact, connection within Europe itself didn't spare the world from conflict. There is only one thing that has seemingly driven away conflict, and that is complete economic integration. That was a non-starter for Russian policymakers. Give them some credit for once instead of deep-throating Peterson.
This post was edited on 7/10/22 at 11:42 pm
Posted on 7/10/22 at 11:43 pm to crazy4lsu
(no message)
This post was edited on 6/16/26 at 1:17 pm
Posted on 7/10/22 at 11:59 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
I kind of agree which is why I rarely cite him. I do agree with 90% of what he says here though. I’m more likely to agree with Tim Pool’s reasoning than anyone else.
You are agreeing with some of the absolute dumbest people man. I'm begging you, turn off the computer and read a book. Peterson's screed has been a complete waste, as he has no interesting thoughts on it, and again just acts like he is the source of his own light, refracting everything through himself as though his experience of things is meaningful. It's a perfect example of solipsistic thinking. Tim Pool is another brain-dead moron too.
Posted on 7/11/22 at 12:00 am to OMLandshark
quote:
I mean, Lenin was within living memory.
To whom? Some octogenarians? Also who cares?
quote:
I buy it outside of it, but surely there had to be a way where that could happen. The grandkids wanted what their grandparents had.
I have no idea what you are saying here.
Posted on 7/11/22 at 1:03 am to crazy4lsu
Oh no, Ukraine bros, your side is committing unthinkable human rights violations just like Vladimir Literally Hitler Putin!
This post was edited on 7/11/22 at 1:05 am
Posted on 7/11/22 at 6:20 am to OMLandshark
nope
Posted on 7/11/22 at 6:21 am to RLDSC FAN
British Defence Intelligence
UPDATE ON UKRAINE 11 July 2022
INTELLIGENCE UPDATE
As of Sunday 10 July, Russian artillery bombardments continued in the northern Donbas sector, but probably without any major territorial advances. Ukrainian forces continued to apply localised pressure to the Russian defensive line in North East Kherson oblast, also probably without achieving territorial gain.
In late June, a Russian-language media agency based in Russia's far eastern Lake Baikal region uploaded a video in which the wives of soldiers from the Eastern Military District's (EMD's) 36th Combined Arms Army directly appealed to a local politician for their husbands to be returned home from service in Ukraine. One woman claimed that personnel of EMD's 5th Separate Guards Tank Brigade are 'mentally and physically exhausted', because they have been on active combat duty since the launch of the special military operation' on 24 February 2022.
The lack of scheduled breaks from intense combat conditions is highly likely one of the most damaging of the many personnel issues the Russian MoD is struggling to rectify amongst the deployed force.
UPDATE ON UKRAINE 11 July 2022
INTELLIGENCE UPDATE
As of Sunday 10 July, Russian artillery bombardments continued in the northern Donbas sector, but probably without any major territorial advances. Ukrainian forces continued to apply localised pressure to the Russian defensive line in North East Kherson oblast, also probably without achieving territorial gain.
In late June, a Russian-language media agency based in Russia's far eastern Lake Baikal region uploaded a video in which the wives of soldiers from the Eastern Military District's (EMD's) 36th Combined Arms Army directly appealed to a local politician for their husbands to be returned home from service in Ukraine. One woman claimed that personnel of EMD's 5th Separate Guards Tank Brigade are 'mentally and physically exhausted', because they have been on active combat duty since the launch of the special military operation' on 24 February 2022.
The lack of scheduled breaks from intense combat conditions is highly likely one of the most damaging of the many personnel issues the Russian MoD is struggling to rectify amongst the deployed force.
Posted on 7/11/22 at 6:32 am to northshorebamaman
quote:
When the frick did Jordan Peterson become an expert on everything? That guy's ego knows no bounds.
This is a weird melt.
He gives his opinion. They are almost universally based on data. As such, his opinion carries a little weight. His views are certainly worth considering.
Just my .02.
Posted on 7/11/22 at 6:34 am to Asharad
quote:
Time to kick out the USA then.
Bingo.
Posted on 7/11/22 at 6:37 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
This is a weird melt.
His opinion must have been to remain neutral. People will turn on him if so, regardless of his opinion of other issues.
This post was edited on 7/11/22 at 6:39 am
Posted on 7/11/22 at 6:42 am to StormyMcMan
Russia has been saber rattling over this like Finland joining NATO. Wonder if it will just be more of the same.
quote:
#Lithuania has expanded restrictions on the transit of goods through its territory to #Kaliningrad, Reuters reports.
As of today, cement, timber, alcohol and alcohol-based industrial chemicals are banned, a #Lithuanian customs official said. LINK
Posted on 7/11/22 at 6:44 am to OMLandshark
quote:
He outright says it yes and thinks it’s tragic since we could have turned Russia against China. I agree with him.
For starters China isn’t really anyones ally in a mutual sense. China uses its economy and population to influence “partnerships” for its own interests. China isn’t building bases and investing billions in Africa because they’re Allie’s anymore than they’re buying oil and gas from Russia because they’re Allies.
If anything, the more the Russians struggle in Ukraine, their equipment shown inferior to western equipment that’s a generation or more old, and loses massive amounts of tanks & missiles they can’t quickly replace Russia becomes more of a subject to China than anything of a reasonable ally. Had Russia blown the doors off of Ukraine as everyone thought and the facade of Russian military might remained in tact, then year Russia and China would be more of allies until their common goal of displacing the US from hegemony interceded with their own hegemonic interests. Either way, China and Russia are not and never were compatible to a high degree.
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