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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 5/24/22 at 1:48 pm to
Posted by Palmetto98
Where the stars are big and bright
Member since Nov 2021
2145 posts
Posted on 5/24/22 at 1:48 pm to
quote:

So you admit that Hitler was highly incompetent as a military strategist?


I think all of the Nazis were incompetent and crazy. That’s what fascism is lol.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42802 posts
Posted on 5/24/22 at 1:59 pm to
47 yards. It hit off the left uptight and went through the goal posts.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42802 posts
Posted on 5/24/22 at 2:07 pm to
quote:


He should have knocked England out of the war before he ever considered invading the USSR. Opening up a second front at that time was a terrible decision


He had to defend the north coast of France, Norway, attacked Greece, Greece and N Africa and then go after Russia all at the same time.

He actually had four or five fronts to defend.
Posted by LSUPilot07
Member since Feb 2022
8688 posts
Posted on 5/24/22 at 2:07 pm to
How was invading them NOT stupid? You never want a war on 2 fronts especially against an army the size Stalin had and he had no issues sending waves upon waves of red army soldiers to die to blunt German attacks. It might have taken 5 Russian tanks to knock out a German Tiger but they had them to spare, Hitler didn’t. This is after the crown jewel of his armed forces, the Luftwaffe, were defeated by Britain. Your argument doesn’t hold water.
This post was edited on 5/24/22 at 2:33 pm
Posted by Spaceman Spiff
Savannah
Member since Sep 2012
20492 posts
Posted on 5/24/22 at 2:14 pm to
quote:

With what navy? The English were stalled on their island or limited to North Africa at the time. They lacked the manpower and resources to invade the continent.


You seem to forget that had not Germany switched from attacking RAF site to cities, they would have knocked out the RAF. The RAF was on the ropes until Germany switched to bombing cities as a result of the RAF hitting theirs. Had they finished the job they would have had complete control of the skies.
Posted by AU86
Member since Aug 2009
26257 posts
Posted on 5/24/22 at 2:22 pm to
quote:

You seem to forget that had not Germany switched from attacking RAF site to cities, they would have knocked out the RAF. The RAF was on the ropes until Germany switched to bombing cities as a result of the RAF hitting theirs. Had they finished the job they would have had complete control of the skies.


100% truth.
Posted by Palmetto98
Where the stars are big and bright
Member since Nov 2021
2145 posts
Posted on 5/24/22 at 2:25 pm to
quote:

You seem to forget that had not Germany switched from attacking RAF site to cities, they would have knocked out the RAF. The RAF was on the ropes until Germany switched to bombing cities as a result of the RAF hitting theirs. Had they finished the job they would have had complete control of the skies.


This doesn’t take in account the maintenance of air superiority, British aircraft production being high, air superiority doesn’t equate to supremacy, and the capabilities of British Anti Air defenses. Bottom line, they couldn’t take England.
This post was edited on 5/24/22 at 2:27 pm
Posted by Spaceman Spiff
Savannah
Member since Sep 2012
20492 posts
Posted on 5/24/22 at 2:33 pm to
quote:

This doesn’t take in account the maintenance of air superiority, British aircraft production being high, air superiority doesn’t equate to supremacy, and the capabilities of British Anti Air defenses. Bottom line, they couldn’t take England.



Apparently reading comprehension along with history isn't your strong suit. Do you really think AA could have stopped them? With the RAF done, early warning done, just exactly how would their AA worked? And a little tidbit, their AA was nothing close to what the Germans had. Read up a little. And guess how that turned out. Nice try, though. Superiority means nothing if can't use it.
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45781 posts
Posted on 5/24/22 at 2:33 pm to
quote:

Are you including the 10 million Ukrainians that fled you Ukraine and Zelensky who was literally begging the entire planet to save him and his country in the days and weeks after the invasion?


1. It was women and children who fled Ukraine.

2. Zelenski was asking the USA, the UK, and NATO to honor the promises it made to Ukraine in the Budapest Memorandum and other agreements that have been made between Ukraine and NATO. He was also asking the UN to actually live up its charter especially Chapter VII of the United Nations Charter which forbids one UN member from invading another member. What exactly is wrong with wanting other nations to actually honor the agreements they made with your country and calling out the UN for being a toothless organization?

3. The Ukrainians knew that the Ukrainian people and the Ukrainian armed forces would fight. They did not know if they would win, but they knew they would fight. I have been telling the ppl on the PT board for years that the from my personal experience in Ukraine the average Ukrainian hates Russia. I have also been saying since November of last year that if Russia invaded then the Ukrainians were going to give them one hell of a bloody nose the second they crossed the border. The Russians might win in the short term it would lose the war eventually because Ukraine would launch an insurgency like the world has never seen before. I was right about all of that. The only thing I did not see coming was the incompetence of the Russian military.
Posted by AU86
Member since Aug 2009
26257 posts
Posted on 5/24/22 at 2:39 pm to
Tater Putin baw.
Posted by Palmetto98
Where the stars are big and bright
Member since Nov 2021
2145 posts
Posted on 5/24/22 at 2:39 pm to
quote:

Apparently reading comprehension along with history isn't your strong suit. Do you really think AA could have stopped them? With the RAF done, early warning done, just exactly how would their AA worked? And a little tidbit, their AA was nothing close to what the Germans had. Read up a little. And guess how that turned out. Nice try, though. Superiority means nothing if can't use it.


You need to calm down bulldawg . I’m not the one making fantasy scenarios for the Germans. Germany lost WW2 plain and fricking simple. There was no what if scenario, no magical technology, no alien intervention, and etc that could have changed their fate. They did what they did to win but lost because they were outmatched resources, manpower, industrial capacity, and geopolitics. Get over it!
Posted by LSUPilot07
Member since Feb 2022
8688 posts
Posted on 5/24/22 at 2:40 pm to
Yes switching to bombing civilians instead of airfields bought Britain much needed time but they also had a navy that Germany couldn’t touch so crossing the channel would have been hard even with air cover. Anyone whose ever seen the English Channel can tell just by looking at it how challenging crossing it would be for an entire army. Unforgiving waters. Radar saved Britain. It allowed command time to get its fighters in the air and most importantly at altitude where they had the advantage and could dive on Luftwaffe planes to attack. They also used what small forces they had the correct way. Hurricanes would be given the task of attacking bomber formations while the Spitfires were held back to go after the bomber’s fighter cover.
This post was edited on 5/24/22 at 2:44 pm
Posted by Spaceman Spiff
Savannah
Member since Sep 2012
20492 posts
Posted on 5/24/22 at 2:46 pm to
quote:

Yes switching to bombing civilians instead of airfields bought Britain much needed time but they also had a navy that Germany couldn’t touch so crossing the channel would have been hard even with air cover. Anyone whose ever seen the English Channel can tell just by looking at it how challenging crossing it would be for an entire army. Unforgiving waters. Radar saved Britain. It allowed command time to get its fighters in the air and most importantly at altitude where they had the advantage and could dive on Luftwaffe planes to attack. They also used what small forces they had the correct way. Hurricanes would be given the task of attacking bomber formations while the Spitfires were held back to go after the bomber’s fighter cover


Fighter cover wouldn't have been there had they not switched. Period. But they did, so there's that. However, had (notice the word "had") they not switched, with the RAF done and the radar knocked out, the AA would have been blind as a bat. And with no aircover? That navy would have been useless.
Posted by Palmetto98
Where the stars are big and bright
Member since Nov 2021
2145 posts
Posted on 5/24/22 at 2:52 pm to
quote:

Fighter cover wouldn't have been there had they not switched. Period. But they did, so there's that. However, had (notice the word "had") they not switched, with the RAF done and the radar knocked out, the AA would have been blind as a bat. And with no aircover? That navy would have been useless.


So the RAF is just going to stop producing planes from then on? Okay, let’s say your wet dream scenario plays out and there’s no RAF. How is Germany going to successfully land troops on British soil and successfully invade it with its lack of navy and amphibious warfare experience. D-Day wasn’t just the Allies decided to just send troops across the channel. It was an extremely complicated process coupled with learning experience from previous campaigns and massive cooperation. If Hitler is so crazy and incompetent, how does he just magically pull this off?
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45781 posts
Posted on 5/24/22 at 3:01 pm to
quote:

Please tell me how invading the USSR at the time was stupid? Just because it failed doesn’t mean it didn’t make sense at the time.



His decision to invade the USSR was not necessarily a stupid decision. However, Hitler made many stupid decisions leading up to the invasion. For example, the decision to invade on June 22nd 1941 was stupid. After Hitler made the decision to invade USSR the German General Staff recommended and planned for the invasion to begin in late May in order to allow for enough time to win the war before winter. When Hitler was forced to intervene in the Balkans in the spring of 1941 delayed the start of Barbarossa. Some of the German General Staff recommended to Hitler that since he was going to delay the start of Barbarossa then they should delay for a year and not a month. That would give Luftwaffe time to sink even more of British trade through the Suez Canal and Mediterranean Sea and time for the Italians to threaten Egypt. Britain was already stretched almost to the point of breaking and even small delays in shipping through the Suez Canal would make Britain sue for peace. Germany would then have been able focus on attacking the USSR in 1942 without having to worry about the British and would have the ability to buy oil from British oil fields in the Middle East and ship it to the Axis forces through the Suez Canal. Hitler could have easily defeated the Red Army in 1942 if he did not have to keep forces stationed in western europe and he did not have to send a 1/3rd of his invading force to capture the Soviet oil fields in the Caucuses. Hitler rejecting the argument to delay for a whole year and launching Operation Barbarossa on June 22nd 19441 without knocking England out of the war was a stupid decision that cost Germany the war.

Hitler also made many stupid decisions after the start of Barbarossa that cost Germany the war. For example, the General Staff recommended that Hitler not divert troops from the assault on Moscow to capture Kiev because it would delay the German arrival at Moscow. Hitler ignored that recommendation and ordered troops to be diverted to capture Kiev. Once Kiev was encircled its garrison was neutralized and it took 6 weeks for the Germans to completely capture it. That six week delay allowed the Soviets to have enough time to disassemble their tank and weapons factories in Kharkiv and move them by rail across the Ural mountains. Those tank factories were reconstructed and later accounted for > 50% of Soviet armor production from 1942 - 1945. That delay also gave the USSR an extra 6 weeks to fortify Moscow and allowed for General Winter to reach Moscow at the same time as the German Army. That decision turned out to be a stupid one because it Hitler had not made it, the German Army would not have been delayed for 6 weeks. The Germans would have captured or forced the Soviets to destroy the tank factories in Kharkiv, and Germany would have reached a less heavily fortified Moscow 6 weeks before winter. Even if the Germans did not force the Soviets to surrender in 1941 if the USSR had lost > 50% of its tank production it would not have been able to produce enough tanks or import enough lend-lease tanks to prevent the Germans from winning the war in 1942. So Hitler's decision to divert troops from the drive on Moscow to capture Kiev was a stupid decision that cost Germany the war.

That is just 2 examples of stupid decisions made by Hitler that cost the axis powers victory in WW2.
This post was edited on 5/24/22 at 3:20 pm
Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5180 posts
Posted on 5/24/22 at 3:06 pm to
quote:

Hitler did what made sense on paper, the Nazis were never going to win the war


Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45781 posts
Posted on 5/24/22 at 3:09 pm to
quote:

Chinese and Russian nuclear bombers fly over Sea of Japan as Biden visits Tokyo. (Financial Times)
LINK

Send the B2s to fly along the borders of Russian and Chinese air space and then tell them about it after. The commies can try to act tough but the fact that we can penetrate their airspace without them knowing is an embarrassment to them and it scares the pants off of them.
Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5180 posts
Posted on 5/24/22 at 3:22 pm to
quote:

Please tell me how invading the USSR at the time was stupid? Just because it failed doesn’t mean it didn’t make sense at the time.


Opening a two from war literally clear cross continental Europe with Britain still in the fight and the US, at least it’s president, anxious to enter the war to help Britain seems incredibly dumb. Incredibly strenuous to supply logistics which inhibited the eastern front. Operation Barbarossa being delayed making a winter assault in Russia more likely, as obviously happened, was historically dumb. His meddling and ADHD in operational decisions were a huge detriment.

I’m not sure what much you could say was correct about the decision.
Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5180 posts
Posted on 5/24/22 at 3:33 pm to
quote:

Send the B2s to fly along the borders of Russian and Chinese air space and then tell them about it after. The commies can try to act tough but the fact that we can penetrate their airspace without them knowing is an embarrassment to them and it scares the pants off of them.


Good way to help further get Japan off the fence on the national defense policy and awaken that nightmare again.
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8192 posts
Posted on 5/24/22 at 3:45 pm to
I had oral surgery this morning, so not spending much time today reading about the war in Ukraine; however, given we're debating the German invasion of Russia, which is considered by every historian that I've ever read, and I've read a ton of them, Hitlers biggest mistake in the war.

Palmento, you're entitled to your opinions on this subject, but obviously, anyone who engages you on this is just wasting their time. It's akin to drawing a circle on a chalkboard and writing "bang head here."
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