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Message
re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 5/23/22 at 7:11 pm to Centinel
Posted on 5/23/22 at 7:11 pm to Centinel
quote:
We did for almost twenty years.
Well judging by the state of affairs today, we didnt do that good of a job.....
I think it is ok to acknowledge this and not be labeled a "Putin lover" or "Putin Bro".
1
Posted on 5/23/22 at 7:19 pm to JayDeerTay84
quote:
If you are not protected by another country or faction of countries, you are subject to your own defense and the whim of the political atmosphere around you. So, if you are invaded and taken over, you are nothing. Morals dont really mean much when reality hits. To your point, Costa Rica's independence is secured via a treaty with the US in 1948.
So Costa Rica, a country with no army, is sovereign because of a security agreement with the US. But Ukraine, a country with a fairly strong army, isn’t sovereign because it had a security agreement with Russia that Russia broke. And you define sovereignty as being able to defend themselves???
If the US invaded Costa Rica tomorrow would you say that they aren’t even a sovereign state?
Posted on 5/23/22 at 7:20 pm to JayDeerTay84
quote:
Well judging by the state of affairs today, we didnt do that good of a job.....
quote:
We did for almost twenty years.
sounds like we did.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 7:24 pm to VOLhalla
quote:
So Costa Rica, a country with no army, is sovereign because of a security agreement with the US. But Ukraine, a country with a fairly strong army, isn’t sovereign because it had a security agreement with Russia that Russia broke. And you define sovereignty as being able to defend themselves???
You know, the people of Chaz declared themselves sovereign. Then a bunch of crackheads robbed them while they slept.
So yea sure, anyone can be sovereign. Its just a word. The only thing that gives any lines on a map any meaning is strength.
Its NOT that hard of a concept.
quote:
If the US invaded Costa Rica tomorrow would you say that they aren’t even a sovereign state?
They would be the next state of the united states of America.
Otherwise, are we to give back the land we currently own to the Indian nations? England? Mexico?
No, we earned that shite. That is what makes us sovereign.
Ukraine is currently earning their land right now the hard way because they and the west were asleep at the wheel.
This post was edited on 5/23/22 at 7:26 pm
Posted on 5/23/22 at 7:25 pm to Centinel
quote:
quote:
We did for almost twenty years.
sounds like we did.
If only wars were decided by "almost"...
Posted on 5/23/22 at 7:26 pm to JayDeerTay84
quote:
If only wars were decided by "almost"...
Over twenty years is "almost"?
Posted on 5/23/22 at 7:30 pm to Centinel
quote:
Over twenty years is "almost"?
Yea. 20 years to build up security that uhhh doesn't exist.
So now they are fighting a guerilla war. When, instead, they could have amassed enough strength to have never been invaded in the 1st place.
As I said, this could have easily been forecasted and many have. Just, no one cared to listen.
This post was edited on 5/23/22 at 7:38 pm
Posted on 5/23/22 at 7:34 pm to JayDeerTay84
quote:
So yea sure, anyone can be sovereign. Its just a word. The only thing that gives any lines on a map any meaning is strength. Its NOT that hard of a concept.
The US could destroy any other nation’s military. I guess the US is the only sovereign nation. But then again, a large enough coalition of countries could destroy the US. Guess there are no sovereign nations according to your interpretation.
I’d say a country is sovereign when an international consensus agrees that the country is sovereign. Inadequate military strength is a failure of the government, but in no way defines sovereignty.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 7:35 pm to JayDeerTay84
quote:
this could have easily been forecasted and many have. Just, no one cared to listen.
Ah yes "I saw this all along"
And its "guerilla"
Posted on 5/23/22 at 7:37 pm to Lakeboy7
quote:
And its "guerilla"
Thanks!
Posted on 5/23/22 at 7:39 pm to VOLhalla
quote:
The US could destroy any other nation’s military. I guess the US is the only sovereign nation.
I mean, the world would probably be better off.....
quote:
But then again, a large enough coalition of countries could destroy the US. Guess there are no sovereign nations according to your interpretation.
Hopefully we would use our nukes before then...
quote:
Inadequate military strength is a failure of the government, but in no way defines sovereignty.
If you cant defend or secure the means to defend country, how are you sovereign? It goes against the very meaning of the word.
History is full of nations that came and went.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 7:40 pm to Lakeboy7
quote:
Ah yes "I saw this all along"
I mean, Russia hasn't been dormant for 20 years....
Posted on 5/23/22 at 7:47 pm to JayDeerTay84
quote:
Russia hasn't been dormant for 20 years....
I guess regression would technically keep you from being dormant.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 7:49 pm to Lakeboy7
quote:
I guess regression would technically keep you from being dormant.
This is just false. Just focusing on Ukraine, its verifiably false.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 7:50 pm to Chromdome35
quote:
I saw some reports today that the Ukrainians tried to blow a dam in the south. From the pictures, it doesn't look like they were successful.
Looks like wrong technique and incorrect explosives.
What you want to do is drill a series of boreholes along the red line and fill them with a low velocity explosive like ANFO. ANFO is perfect because it has a very high heaving property. It looks like they just laid a high-velocity explosive (C4, TNT, etc) on top of the earthen dam and the majority of the blast was directed upward.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 7:54 pm to JayDeerTay84
quote:
If you cant defend or secure the means to defend country, how are you sovereign? It goes against the very meaning of the word.
Sovereign simply means independent. Simply because a stronger force could destroy a country at some point doesn’t mean the country is or was never sovereign. All you’re doing is justifying this invasion because Russia is stronger than Ukraine. And justifying all invasions in the history of man.
Every country in the world could be destroyed under the right circumstances. What’s even the point of your interpretation if it leads to the conclusion that sovereignty doesn’t even exist?
This post was edited on 5/23/22 at 7:55 pm
Posted on 5/23/22 at 7:58 pm to Obtuse1
Look at you and your fancy diagrams and shite.
ETA: That was meant to be funny btw for those of you that immediately want to get their panties in a wad.
ETA: That was meant to be funny btw for those of you that immediately want to get their panties in a wad.
This post was edited on 5/23/22 at 7:59 pm
Posted on 5/23/22 at 8:02 pm to VOLhalla
quote:
All you’re doing is justifying this invasion because Russia is stronger than Ukraine. And justifying all invasions in the history of man.
No I am not. I am giving a reason as to why these things happen. Its not "justifying" to give actual reasons as to why shite happens.
quote:
Every country in the world could be destroyed under the right circumstances. What’s even the point of your interpretation if it leads to the conclusion that sovereignty doesn’t even exist?
The point is that sovereignty only exists if it can be defended. That is HOW IT WORKS.
If Germany never lost WW2, would Poland exist today? No.
For example, say this Ukraine war ends and Russia keeps the Donbas. You can call it Ukraine all you want, but Ukraine it is no longer. Being sovereign doesn't really man frick all at that point does it? Just like Crimea.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 8:11 pm to JayDeerTay84
Here is an example of sovereignty being meaningless to the will of the powerful.
Does anyone remember Osama Bin Laden killing?
The US gave no fricking shits about Pakistani sovereignty.
None of us probably did either... Though, still violated.
Does anyone remember Osama Bin Laden killing?
The US gave no fricking shits about Pakistani sovereignty.
None of us probably did either... Though, still violated.
This post was edited on 5/23/22 at 8:14 pm
Posted on 5/23/22 at 8:15 pm to JayDeerTay84
quote:
As I said previously, how can you consider one a sovereign state without securing security?
When Ukraine agreed to de-nuke and work with the West it was always a matter of time to either A: fully secure security or B: face Russian aggression.
I dont know in what world anyone would be shocked that scummy commies turn out to be scummy commies.
As I said, Ukraine played half in half out and we are all surprised?
Exhibit A of why security is ultimately your own responsibility first and foremost. They should have kept the nukes and we should not have attempted to get them to give them up in the first place. They also should have done a better job of rooting out Soviet style corruption and implementing western defensive strategy in their absence.
Since I was 4 at the time, was there a legitimate feeling at the time Ukraine, Belarus, or Kazakhstan posed a real threat to just pop off a nuke vs rational action as other nuclear powers have engaged in?
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