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re: Israel–Hamas War Discussion Thread: News Links On First Page
Posted on 10/9/23 at 12:44 pm to ned nederlander
Posted on 10/9/23 at 12:44 pm to ned nederlander
quote:
You seem pretty knowledgeable here. Curious if you have any knowledge or insight into private gun ownership in Israel. I wonder how an event like this shapes that policy going forward. The ability of Hamas to maraud over the border and kidnap people in this event is just wild.
I don't have a great answer for you here. My guess is that with enough off-duty and reservist IDF folks who are armed (it's pretty common to see people in shorts/t-shirt with a rifle slung out running errands), they don't feel the need.
Another guess is that because of the unconventional nature of things and the fact that it's super easy for one side to look like (appearance wise) the other side, they don't want civilians running around with weapons since it would make the Police/Mil response much more difficult in terms of knowing who's who and shooting the correct people. (Think of the issues surrounding concelaed carry here in the states - "when the police arrive, make sure they don't think you're a bad guy and shoot you" - and then multiply it by the fact things are even LESS obvious (visually) over there.
I'm not suggesting it's good/bad right/wrong...just my guess as to your question.
0
Posted on 10/9/23 at 12:46 pm to Pandy Fackler
quote:
The Palestinians are a conquered people who don't know they're a conquered people.
Well stated and very true.
Posted on 10/9/23 at 12:47 pm to Chucktown_Badger
quote:
Maybe they should've thought about their countrymen and women when they decided to do this. You don't get to wholesale slaughter innocents and expect nothing in retribution.
Red herring/straw man argument.
Nobody, at least not me, said anything of the sort. There damn sure should be retribution. Massive retribution. Just not indiscriminate, "wipe Palestine off the face of the earth, kill them all" retribution.
I've laid out in a previous post, if you're bothering to read the board (I know it's tough to sift though the drive by comments), why you can't look at the Palestinians as anything resembling a monolithic entity.
Posted on 10/9/23 at 12:49 pm to Burt Orangello
What's the upside for Palestine here?
I don't see any sort of exit strategy or benefit to Palestine for this action.
I don't see any sort of exit strategy or benefit to Palestine for this action.
Posted on 10/9/23 at 12:50 pm to Burt Orangello
quote:
quote:
1. Hamas has overwhelming support within Palestine and the Islamic community as a whole.
No, they do not. This is a factually incorrect statement.
quote:
2. Hamas has had control of the Palestinian government since 2006
No, they have not. This is a factually incorrect statement.
Those statements are semantically incorrect as Hamas has had support and control in Gaza. They have been at odds before with the PLO in the West Bank.
But in Gaza, Hamas has had favor and control since the last elections were held in 2006.
That's a fact. And that's where the trouble is right now.
quote:
There is the West Bank and there is Gaza.
There is the Palestinian Authority (PLO/Fatah) and Abbas, and there is Hamas.
And you just proved you're arguing semantics.
Posted on 10/9/23 at 12:51 pm to teke184
quote:
Israel played a knock knock joke on a Hezbollah commander after Hezbollah said they would open a front with Israel if they went into Gaza.
That makes sense. Israel going to try to knock this out in one swoop.
Posted on 10/9/23 at 12:53 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
What's the upside for Palestine here?
Nothing. The rank and file will suffer immensely because they put faith in horrible excuses for humanity.
Posted on 10/9/23 at 12:55 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Nothing. The rank and file will suffer immensely because they put faith in horrible excuses for humanity.
For sure. Thousands of Palestinian civilians are about to be killed. We could be looking at thousands of dead civilians already.
Posted on 10/9/23 at 12:57 pm to RogerTheShrubber
"A U.S. Air Force C-17 Military Transport Aircraft with the 105th Airlift Wing out of Stewart Air National Guard Base in New York has reportedly arrived at Ben Gurion International Airport in Tel Aviv, Israel for an Unknown Reason, although it is likely for either the Transfer of Military Aid and/or the Evacuation of American Nationals."
OSINTdefender
OSINTdefender
Posted on 10/9/23 at 12:58 pm to Terminal Lance
quote:
We could be looking at thousands of dead civilians already.
It will be brutal. But Hamas and Hezbollah Leadership have ALWAYS directed these actions from afar.
Pussies hiding in Damascus or Iran while their soldiers and citizens die.
Posted on 10/9/23 at 12:59 pm to Terminal Lance
quote:
Thousands of Palestinian civilians are about to be killed. We could be looking at thousands of dead civilians already.
Actions have consequences.
Posted on 10/9/23 at 1:00 pm to jizzle6609
This conflict didn’t start in 1967 is started over 2000 years ago. When Moses was led to the promise land there was only one problem, the ancestors of the Palestinians were already there. They have been unwanted Arab nomads most of history since then.
This is a continuation of that issue. Nobody wants them. The Arabs view them like red headed step children in the ghetto. They are used like a disposable pawns on a chess board. That’s really their only purpose
Bill Clinton spent years trying to make a peace deal with Arafat and Israel. He basically got them everything they ask for but Arafat wouldn’t take the deal. Later Afafat admitted that if he took the deal Hamas will murder him and it wouldn’t happen anyway. Maybe if he would have been brave and given his life for peace it would have stuck, but he wasn’t willing to die for peace so we will never know. Everyone saw this as it clearly indicates there will never be a peace deal.
The Arabs will not take them, nobody will do it’s a complete catch 22.
The only decent temporary solution is at this point to take out or completely isolate Iran. We have kicked this can down the road so many times it maybe in the lake.
My solution is to use the real war tech we have not just the public tech to take out all the fundamentalist leaders in Iran and let them know we can vaporize them anywhere anytime any day. (Some of you may understand what I am talking about here.) But that has serious consequences too.
So we are basically fricked no matter what. Enjoy the possibility of watching the beginning of the end in real time
This is a continuation of that issue. Nobody wants them. The Arabs view them like red headed step children in the ghetto. They are used like a disposable pawns on a chess board. That’s really their only purpose
Bill Clinton spent years trying to make a peace deal with Arafat and Israel. He basically got them everything they ask for but Arafat wouldn’t take the deal. Later Afafat admitted that if he took the deal Hamas will murder him and it wouldn’t happen anyway. Maybe if he would have been brave and given his life for peace it would have stuck, but he wasn’t willing to die for peace so we will never know. Everyone saw this as it clearly indicates there will never be a peace deal.
The Arabs will not take them, nobody will do it’s a complete catch 22.
The only decent temporary solution is at this point to take out or completely isolate Iran. We have kicked this can down the road so many times it maybe in the lake.
My solution is to use the real war tech we have not just the public tech to take out all the fundamentalist leaders in Iran and let them know we can vaporize them anywhere anytime any day. (Some of you may understand what I am talking about here.) But that has serious consequences too.
So we are basically fricked no matter what. Enjoy the possibility of watching the beginning of the end in real time
This post was edited on 10/9/23 at 1:05 pm
Posted on 10/9/23 at 1:00 pm to idlewatcher
quote:
Well stated and very true.
It's inhumane to allow the Palestinians to continue to have hope.
Posted on 10/9/23 at 1:00 pm to Terminal Lance
It’s a sad situation but a plurality of Palestinians (and arguably majority) have made this bed.
“Strawman” arguments about Palestinians not being monolithic is basically irrelevant to the nature and justification of Israel’s response.
“Strawman” arguments about Palestinians not being monolithic is basically irrelevant to the nature and justification of Israel’s response.
Posted on 10/9/23 at 1:02 pm to cypresstiger
Just watched a dead father carrying his daughter around. Breaks my heart. Awful awful civilian casualties here all around. Need to push the civvies out and then whoever is left, no quarter.
ETA: I mean a father carrying his dead daughter
ETA: I mean a father carrying his dead daughter
This post was edited on 10/9/23 at 1:03 pm
Posted on 10/9/23 at 1:03 pm to IAmNERD
quote:
1. Hamas has overwhelming support within Palestine and the Islamic community as a whole.
quote:
as Hamas has had support and control in Gaza. They have been at odds before with the PLO in the West Bank.
But in Gaza, Hamas has had favor and control since the last elections were held in 2006.
That's a fact. And that's where the trouble is right now.
It's not semantics. You are attempting to reduce things down to digestible nuggets and then when someone tells you the details matter (they do; this is one of the most complex geopolitical situations in modern history), you hide behind a "you're arguing semantics" rebuttal.
Hamas having control in Gaza =/= your statement of "Hamas has overwhelming support within Palestine and the Islamic community as a whole." They do not.
It's a VERY important distinction, within the context of this situation and what I've been trying to address ("kill 'em all"), because one implies a monolithic aspect when that is nowhere near reality.
You, and many others, are WAY out of your element here. Dunning-Kruger effect at its finest. You can learn or you can keep repeating things that *sound right*, but aren't. They *sound right* only because people have been repeating the same shite for years, perpetuating bad info.
Posted on 10/9/23 at 1:03 pm to TutHillTiger
quote:
Enjoy the possibility of watching the beginning of the end in real time
I mean, you just said that its been going on for centuries now, why would this be the end?
Posted on 10/9/23 at 1:04 pm to MrLSU
"Breaking News: Israel issues a warning: “IDF will destroy Damascus, target Syrian President Assad if Hezbollah joins the war; US warships will support Israel in the conflict.” - Message relayed via France.
Source: Ynet News."
Mario Nawfal
Source: Ynet News."
Mario Nawfal
Posted on 10/9/23 at 1:05 pm to MrLSU
Hamas is now saying its open to a truce per Fox News and Inside Paper.
Insider Paper
The Spectator Index
"Hamas official open to a discussion of a truce with Israel: Reuters is reporting that:
* Hamas official said they are open to discussions over a truce with Israel."
Forex Trading News Center
Insider Paper
The Spectator Index
"Hamas official open to a discussion of a truce with Israel: Reuters is reporting that:
* Hamas official said they are open to discussions over a truce with Israel."
Forex Trading News Center
This post was edited on 10/9/23 at 1:10 pm
Posted on 10/9/23 at 1:06 pm to TutHillTiger
quote:
Some of you may understand what I am talking about here
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