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re: Investigators When they KNEW Murdaugh lied (Page 112)

Posted on 2/24/23 at 2:45 pm to
Posted by Bluefin
The Banana Stand
Member since Apr 2011
13393 posts
Posted on 2/24/23 at 2:45 pm to
quote:

Y’all think the state is blowing it?

I think Waters is doing an okay job, but I don't think he's done enough to deter a hung jury.

IMO he should've harped more on this bullshite "I distrust SLED" and "I'm paranoid of cops" claim when there's ample evidence the Murdaugh family never had to worry about law enforcement.

Poking holes in that statement would've weakened the "I just got caught up in lying to the cops" position, but Waters seems to just let it pass in favor of talking about his financial crimes.
Posted by AnAmericanGirl
Member since Feb 2019
565 posts
Posted on 2/24/23 at 2:47 pm to
They are blowing it in multiple ways. First you ask the question and only allow the witness to answer yes or no and then you decide whether to let the witness explain. They are letting this guy word vomit all over the place.

Now the jurors are forced to listen to this idiot explain away his lies. Catch him in the lie and move on.

Allowing him to control his own narrative is either going to give a juror or two a reason to believe his bullshite or it going to annoy them. Could go either way.

Getting AM off his routine would be to shut him down. That will annoy him. He feels in control when he runs his mouth. Shutting him up will get the reaction most of us are looking for. It will take away his control and we will see the man capable of killing his wife and son. Instead of the awe shucks good Ole country boy hes presenting.
Posted by OleVaught14
Member since Jun 2019
8356 posts
Posted on 2/24/23 at 2:50 pm to
quote:

Alex is not some amazing trial lawyer. His skills are more in negotiating, relationships and ability to get cases or be retained because of venue.


Somebody here knows about SC attorneys!
Posted by Enzos Tiny Pito
Member since Oct 2019
2029 posts
Posted on 2/24/23 at 3:01 pm to
You can't go into a murder trial with nothing but circumstantial evidence blow the grand jury then have your case be mostly about how the defendant was a bad dude

They've spent more time on the financial stuff then actually tying the evidence together in a way that is concise they've also blown the evidence they have

Ex: seems like it would be pretty easy to place AMs and Maggie's phone at the same place at the same time through gps if he stupidly threw it out of the car window ( also why was it not dusted for prints
Posted by KosmoCramer
Member since Dec 2007
79293 posts
Posted on 2/24/23 at 3:05 pm to
quote:

seems like it would be pretty easy to place AMs and Maggie's phone at the same place at the same time through gps if he stupidly threw it out of the car window ( also why was it not dusted for prints


I believe there's actually exculpatory evidence that puts AM's phone and Maggie's phone a little less than a mile apart when the camera comes on briefly.

Posted by AnAmericanGirl
Member since Feb 2019
565 posts
Posted on 2/24/23 at 3:09 pm to
I still fail to see a clear motive. He had plenty of money available to him at the time to afford his habit. So it wasn't about money.

They have presented no evidence to show he had any history of being violent.

They have presented no evidence his house of cards was about to fall. At the time of the murders no one knew of his addiction or of him stealing from clients.

They have almost no physical evidence against him.

All they have is opportunity. As he was there.
Posted by Festus
With Skillet
Member since Nov 2009
85725 posts
Posted on 2/24/23 at 3:13 pm to
Waters presented a cluster frick of a cross examination. Defense counsel is gonna redirect focus on repugnant liar does not equal murderer.

He tried to boom him at the end. But all of his booming was about lying and it was overkill. He should have been working hard on developing a solid motive, instead of what he did.

Looking more like a hung jury type of thing IMO.
Posted by Enzos Tiny Pito
Member since Oct 2019
2029 posts
Posted on 2/24/23 at 3:13 pm to
quote:

I believe there's actually exculpatory evidence that puts AM's phone and Maggie's phone a little less than a mile apart when the camera comes on briefly


That would make sense even with the states own timeline and AMs though. So idk if that helps them

Considering everyone's phone is basically a tracker I'm shocked that they can't figure out exact location
This post was edited on 2/24/23 at 3:14 pm
Posted by clownbaby
beezwacks not yours
Member since Jan 2009
1060 posts
Posted on 2/24/23 at 3:13 pm to
All of this AND they let him go on and on and on during cross
Posted by Festus
With Skillet
Member since Nov 2009
85725 posts
Posted on 2/24/23 at 3:16 pm to
quote:

He had plenty of money available to him at the time to afford his habit. So it wasn't about money.

I don't know about that. Sounded like he was in a shite ton of financial crisis at the time of the murder. Pretty sure he was disbarred at that point and no longer practicing. But the prosecution didn't really go into that as much as they could have.
Posted by AnAmericanGirl
Member since Feb 2019
565 posts
Posted on 2/24/23 at 3:17 pm to
He wasn't confronted about his thief of clients until til September. After the murders.
This post was edited on 2/24/23 at 3:19 pm
Posted by Festus
With Skillet
Member since Nov 2009
85725 posts
Posted on 2/24/23 at 3:20 pm to
I didn't hear any of the early testimony. Was there any insurance policy on Maggie and/or Paul, and who was the beneficiary?
Posted by KosmoCramer
Member since Dec 2007
79293 posts
Posted on 2/24/23 at 3:21 pm to
quote:

Was there any insurance policy on Maggie and/or Paul, and who was the beneficiary?


No.
Posted by Rebel
Graceland
Member since Jan 2005
138420 posts
Posted on 2/24/23 at 3:22 pm to
quote:

I still fail to see a clear motive.


dude was a junky. he wasn't thinking rationally.
Posted by Obtuse1
Westside Bodymore Yo
Member since Sep 2016
28709 posts
Posted on 2/24/23 at 3:23 pm to
quote:

They are blowing it in multiple ways. First you ask the question and only allow the witness to answer yes or no and then you decide whether to let the witness explain. They are letting this guy word vomit all over the place.


You have watched too many crime dramas. The witness is always allowed to explain their answer as long as they are being responsive to the question. You can usually get the judge to compel a yes or no answer but they aren't going to prevent them from an explanation.

Everyone from the judge to the bailiff knows yes/no questions on X are designed to be manipulative and the attorney is not going to get away with compelling a yes/no answer then talking over the context and moving on to the next yes/no question. You also have to be careful about hammering yes/no questions because you will get an inevitable badgering objection and if you are being an arse it will often be upheld.

Judges are going to let witnesses (especially criminal defendants) explain their answers. You ask then follow along and object for non-responsive when appropriate. Then once they are talked out you revisit the yes/no question and compel if need be. Then you allow that yes or no to continue to reverberate while you quietly "fumble" for the next question. That pause cements the answer in the jury's mind and when you call back to it later in X or closing it magnifies the import.
Posted by Festus
With Skillet
Member since Nov 2009
85725 posts
Posted on 2/24/23 at 3:24 pm to
Then really the only real motive that they have is the extreme drug induced paranoia. Which IMO is fairly weak. They needed to hammer that message home during cross. I don't think they did.

I guess we'll see in closing if that's what they're going with.
Posted by KosmoCramer
Member since Dec 2007
79293 posts
Posted on 2/24/23 at 3:26 pm to
quote:

I guess we'll see in closing if that's what they're going with.


It's sad that we don't even know the state's narrative 5 weeks into trial. Truly an abomination.
Posted by Festus
With Skillet
Member since Nov 2009
85725 posts
Posted on 2/24/23 at 3:30 pm to
quote:

It's sad that we don't even know the state's narrative 5 weeks into trial. Truly an abomination.

I think their narrative is clear. He's an extreme liar and thief, has no problem stealing from and hurting those closest to him, he lied about being at the scene close to the time of the murder, he was a drug addict suffering from paranoia, and he killed his estranged wife and n'eer do well son in that state of paranoia.

I just think they did a poor job of tying that all together. It was completely disjointed.
Posted by Enzos Tiny Pito
Member since Oct 2019
2029 posts
Posted on 2/24/23 at 3:31 pm to
quote:

dude was a junky. he wasn't thinking rationally.


Yeah that would have been a great argument to make if the state was competent
Posted by KosmoCramer
Member since Dec 2007
79293 posts
Posted on 2/24/23 at 3:32 pm to
quote:

he killed his estranged wife


No evidence they were estranged.

And none of what you posted discussed the Financials which has been 2 full weeks of the state's case.
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