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Started By
Message
re: If Russia Started a War in the Baltics, NATO Would Lose — Quickly
Posted on 2/3/16 at 3:11 pm to Darth_Vader
Posted on 2/3/16 at 3:11 pm to Darth_Vader
Like you said, the European countries might be able to rearm more, but if NATO starts placing troops in the Baltics now, it will be seen as an act of aggression by Russia. It's already bad enough that Russia feels surrounded by the enemy. If the enemy started to rally troops, NATO may as well attack.
That said, even if Russia takes the Baltics, the shite storm that would rain down on them from across the world would be so immense, they wouldn't be able to see for days through the poopy clouds.
That said, even if Russia takes the Baltics, the shite storm that would rain down on them from across the world would be so immense, they wouldn't be able to see for days through the poopy clouds.
This post was edited on 2/3/16 at 3:41 pm
0
Posted on 2/3/16 at 3:11 pm to Darth_Vader
So...I buy the exercise. We don't have enough forces to be able to stop them quickly. At best, we'd slow them down so the real fight could start.
You don't destroy armored columns with frickin' carpet bombing "drones", idiot. You destroy them with BRRRRTTT!
So first, you use all the intel/SEAD assets to locate their air defense systems, destroy the ones you can and suppress the rest. Offensive counter-air as soon as F-22s can get on the scene, with backup from Typhoons, Gripens, F-15s, F-18s, etc. It's a fair fight with the Russians without the raptors (know what DRFM jammers are, smart guy?), but we wreck them as soon as it's in country.
After air superiority is established, we start using air interdiction to attrit their maneuver forces. As our land component advances, we have better stuff and people but they have more. However, they're fighting in 2 dimensions and we're fighting in 3, so we win. They get pushed back, negotiate for peace (we're not taking Moscow, ever), and all is well.
Or the nukes fly and we all get to live in a sweet Mad Max wasteland.
You're welcome.
/thread
You don't destroy armored columns with frickin' carpet bombing "drones", idiot. You destroy them with BRRRRTTT!
So first, you use all the intel/SEAD assets to locate their air defense systems, destroy the ones you can and suppress the rest. Offensive counter-air as soon as F-22s can get on the scene, with backup from Typhoons, Gripens, F-15s, F-18s, etc. It's a fair fight with the Russians without the raptors (know what DRFM jammers are, smart guy?), but we wreck them as soon as it's in country.
After air superiority is established, we start using air interdiction to attrit their maneuver forces. As our land component advances, we have better stuff and people but they have more. However, they're fighting in 2 dimensions and we're fighting in 3, so we win. They get pushed back, negotiate for peace (we're not taking Moscow, ever), and all is well.
Or the nukes fly and we all get to live in a sweet Mad Max wasteland.
You're welcome.
/thread
Posted on 2/3/16 at 3:13 pm to Darth_Vader
Why would Russia want to invade Europe? They are all socialist just like Russia and they are all broke.
Posted on 2/3/16 at 3:15 pm to Menji
Two Russian Tank commanders are sitting in a cafe on the Siene. One lifts his glass of Grey Goose and asks the other "I wonder who won the air war?"
Posted on 2/3/16 at 3:18 pm to chinhoyang
RUSSIA:
RUSSIA (WOYHI):
Russia:
RUSSIA (WOYHI):
Russia:
Posted on 2/3/16 at 3:21 pm to Menji
quote:
You don't destroy armored columns with frickin' carpet bombing "drones", idiot. You destroy them with BRRRRTTT!
So first, you use all the intel/SEAD assets to locate their air defense systems, destroy the ones you can and suppress the rest. Offensive counter-air as soon as F-22s can get on the scene, with backup from Typhoons, Gripens, F-15s, F-18s, etc. It's a fair fight with the Russians without the raptors (know what DRFM jammers are, smart guy?), but we wreck them as soon as it's in country.
After air superiority is established, we start using air interdiction to attrit their maneuver forces. As our land component advances, we have better stuff and people but they have more. However, they're fighting in 2 dimensions and we're fighting in 3, so we win. They get pushed back, negotiate for peace (we're not taking Moscow, ever), and all is well.
Allow me to introduce you to the SU-35S Flanker-E
quote:
Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov said Monday that Su-35 fighters have been deployed to Hemeimeem air base in Syria. The Su-35 is Russia’s most advanced fighter that is fielded in significant numbers. NATO designates the aircraft as the SU-35S Flanker-E.
“Starting from last week, super-maneuverable Su-35S fighter jets started performing combat missions at Khmeimim airbase,” Maj. Gen. Konashenkov told the Russian state news agency, TASS.
And here's what our own air warfare experts think of it...
quote:
Overall, U.S. defense officials are quite impressed with this latest Flanker variant. “It’s a great airplane and very dangerous, especially if they make a lot of them,” one senior U.S. military official with extensive experience on fifth-generation fighters told me some time ago. “I think even an AESA [active electronically scanned array-radar equipped F-15C] Eagle and [Boeing F/A-18E/F] Super Hornet would both have their hands full,” reported National Interest.
And couple that with the S-400 SAM system....
quote:
The deployment also sends a message to Turkey that, in combination with the S-400 anti-aircraft missile system, Russia can defend its aircraft anywhere in theater with weapon systems equal to or even more capable than NATO can field.
LINK
I still think we could gain at least air superiority over the Russians in a European war, but it would not be easy nor would be be without losses.
Posted on 2/3/16 at 3:22 pm to Darth_Vader
Why would our generals be playing war games versus Russia? They aren't a geopolitical threat!!!
They need to be practicing against a real foe. Israel perhaps.
They need to be practicing against a real foe. Israel perhaps.
This post was edited on 2/3/16 at 3:23 pm
Posted on 2/3/16 at 3:29 pm to chinhoyang
We definitely lose the hot chicks in uniform contest.
Posted on 2/3/16 at 3:34 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Well, the boys from Ft. Campbell (101st Airborne) and the boys from Ft. Bragg (82nd Airborne) would be flown over.
I'm not so sure you'd want them getting there THAT far ahead of everyone else. An interesting logistical question. Wars are fought by logisticians.
Posted on 2/3/16 at 3:35 pm to CadesCove
quote:
Wars are fought by logisticians.
That's true.
Amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics.
Posted on 2/3/16 at 3:53 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
professionals talk logistics.
I'm here if my country needs me. For the right price.
Posted on 2/3/16 at 4:15 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
That's true.
Amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics
And that's where we'd face our biggest challenge. We'd have to move at least two, maybe three full corps from the mainland US to Europe.
Imagine the amount of railheads needed to move them from the interior to ports, tonnage of shipping required to get them across the Atlantic. And then there's the matter of enough port facilities to first load and then unload all the men, vehicles, equipment, and supplies. And even after we do all that, it's only the beginning. We'd still have to have a supply chain stretching across the Atlantic to keep our forces supplied with everything from ammo, replacement vehicles, equipment, and replacement troops. We're talking a logistics effort on a scale not seen since WWII.
And forget using air transports to do the job. We could draft every single military transport we and all our allies possess and even take over civilian aircraft and they still would not come close. They could not come close to keeping up with the logistics demand of our ground forces in a large scale European war. No, this job would require ships, lots of ships. And all of them would have to be escorted both ways across the Atlantic for however long this war lasted.
Posted on 2/3/16 at 4:18 pm to Darth_Vader
Making me want to binge watch World War II in colour on Netflix
Posted on 2/3/16 at 4:20 pm to Darth_Vader
And we'd still have to have trains and trucks to feed ourselves while all this was happening. Not to mention supply materials to our giant industrial centers that no longer exist.
Posted on 2/3/16 at 4:27 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Allow me to introduce you to the SU-35S Flanker-E
quote:
And couple that with the S-400 SAM system....
Yeah, certainly. They're extremely capable. Especially the latter.
The Su-35 is no F-22, though. We'd certainly take losses (probably 18s, 15s, etc), but we're not ingressing the range of any 4th-gen SAM systems without degrading or destroying them first, which is why that's the first step. Can't speak to how, for obvious reasons.
But yeah, it's funny when people think the Russians have way inferior stuff. It's not 1989.
Posted on 2/3/16 at 4:34 pm to CadesCove
quote:
And we'd still have to have trains and trucks to feed ourselves while all this was happening. Not to mention supply materials to our giant industrial centers that no longer exist.
Good point. Earlier I listed all the division we've currently got here in the US. Did you notice how many of them are in places like Kansas, Colorado, Upstate New York, Georgia, and the middle of Texas? Now imagine moving all of them from their current posts to ports for embarkation. Yes each Army post has its own railhead. But you've still got to round up enough rail cars and locomotives to move literally thousands of vehicles, including this andd of tanks, SPG's, and APC's in an orderly manner and get them to where they can be loaded on ships. And that's not even counting moving the men, equipment like tents, mobile kitchens, and all the myriad of things needed to keep an army sustained. Then on top of that you've got to supply them as well. I'm not sure we've got enough trains to move them all in a timely manner. It might take weeks just to get even a couple divisions loaded and on their way. And that would only be about 1/3 of the total force needed.
Posted on 2/3/16 at 4:45 pm to Breesus
Posted on 2/3/16 at 4:52 pm to Darth_Vader
Isn't that what the Baltics are there for? To be taken over by someone from time to time?
Posted on 2/3/16 at 4:53 pm to Darth_Vader
so russia invades the baltics and occupies it. cool. we dont let them further west than germany and we start launching nukes into russia and then russia falls the frick apart
Posted on 2/3/16 at 4:56 pm to Darth_Vader
Man your estimation of the Russian Army is consistently to high.
Their equipment, planes, tanks, trucks, weapons are junk. It has always been junk.
If they had a live fire and maneuver exercise tomorrow at least 60% of their shite would either not start, break down or not go boom.
Their equipment, planes, tanks, trucks, weapons are junk. It has always been junk.
If they had a live fire and maneuver exercise tomorrow at least 60% of their shite would either not start, break down or not go boom.
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