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re: How old is Earth?

Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:46 pm to
Posted by Salmon
I helped draft the email
Member since Feb 2008
86726 posts
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:46 pm to
quote:

I was not arguing for any god. I was answering a post where someone said something about creating a god.



I never said you were arguing for any god

quote:

You still can’t point to where I claimed something could be created from nothing and have no origin.



then can you explain this statement further please

quote:

That doesn’t make sense. If something “created god” then wouldn’t that thing be God? And if not, what created it? And wouldn’t whatever thing is that created the thing that created “god” be itself God?


because this statement appears, to me at least, to be arguing that "god" doesn't need to be created or have an origin


Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
74629 posts
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:47 pm to
quote:

Salmon


Typical. You can’t come up with any reply of substance to counter my post so instead you lower yourself to sophomoric and petty lame attempts at insulting my intelligence.
Posted by Salmon
I helped draft the email
Member since Feb 2008
86726 posts
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:48 pm to
quote:

Typical. You can’t come up with any reply of substance to counter my post so instead you lower yourself to sophomoric and petty lame attempts at insulting my intelligence.




why do you always do this?
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
74629 posts
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:53 pm to
quote:

because this statement appears, to me at least, to be arguing that "god" doesn't need to be created or have an origin


The statement was to illustrate that for something to exist it has to be created. And you can’t create something from nothing. Everything in this universe, every atom, had to be created from something that already existed. All I’ve done is to wonder what was it that existed and what caused it to become all the matter that exists in the universe from the beginning to this day.

I never said it was god, never said it wasn’t god. I’ve said more than once that I personally don’t know. Nobody does. This question has been asked since the dawn of conscious thought. This question has spawned all religions, including the currently popular religion of science. But the truth is nobody knows the answer. My whole point has been the currently popular answer of the Big Bang being the start to it all, isn’t logical in my opinion.
Posted by elposter
Member since Dec 2010
26751 posts
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:55 pm to
quote:

Meanwhile, using "there must be a start" to it all therefore God, ignores the the irony that "God" would presumably have no starting point either.




I think that is his question. The absence of a source/beginning doesn't make sense from our human material world understanding about space/time/matter (i.e. can't create something from nothing) so is the source/beginning something supernatural that actually never wasn't? Seems unanswerable from science thus far.
Posted by Salmon
I helped draft the email
Member since Feb 2008
86726 posts
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:56 pm to
quote:

Everything in this universe, every atom, had to be created from something that already existed.


so this "something that already existed" had no origin?





Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
74629 posts
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:57 pm to
quote:

why do you always do this?


Because you always do what you do. Namely you disagree with sosmwthing I say and instead of coming up with a logical response you reply with passive-aggressive insults at my intelligence. I’d respect you more if you actually debated something we disagree on based on some sort of intelligent thought other than repededly posting this and making snarky remarks disregarding anything I say without ever bothering to say anything of substance. It’s a cop out.
Posted by S1C EM
Athens, GA
Member since Nov 2007
11594 posts
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:58 pm to
quote:

Hard soil evidence using process of radiometric dating tells us 4.5 billionish


No.


He's correct. It absolutely does NOT say any such thing. It is actually not even considered particularly reliable to 100k years.
Posted by jchamil
Member since Nov 2009
19915 posts
Posted on 5/15/18 at 2:00 pm to
quote:

My whole point has been the currently popular answer of the Big Bang being the start to it all, isn’t logical in my opinion.


Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think people are saying the Big Bang is the answer to this

quote:

r what was it that existed


But is the answer to this

quote:

what caused it to become all the matter that exists in the universe from the beginning to this day.
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
74629 posts
Posted on 5/15/18 at 2:01 pm to
quote:

think that is his question. The absence of a source/beginning doesn't make sense from our human material world understanding about space/time/matter (i.e. can't create something from nothing) so is the source/beginning something supernatural that actually never wasn't? Seems unanswerable from science thus far.



Exactly my point. We cannot know or even begin to comprehend the origin of the universe and all that is in it. Perhaps the beginning was a “god” who never wasn’t speaking all of this into existence. If that’s something each individual will have to choose to either beleive or not beleive because as things stand today, there’s no way to prove it one way or the other.
Posted by Salmon
I helped draft the email
Member since Feb 2008
86726 posts
Posted on 5/15/18 at 2:01 pm to
quote:

Namely you disagree with sosmwthing I say and instead of coming up with a logical response you reply with passive-aggressive insults at my intelligence


No, Darth. This is just your massive insecurity speaking.

Multiple posters have tried to illustrate your contradiction in this thread and you keep refusing to address it.

The post in question was just a massive example of your contradiction that we have already tried to show you.

At some point, it becomes comical.
Posted by Clames
Member since Oct 2010
19965 posts
Posted on 5/15/18 at 2:05 pm to
quote:

I’m trying to have an intelligent conversation,


Apparently you are stupid and your attempt was going to be a failure no matter what. Some people, like you, are just born losers.
Posted by Pecker
Rocky Top
Member since May 2015
16674 posts
Posted on 5/15/18 at 2:05 pm to
quote:

Darth_Vader

quote:

Salmon



Okay, I've read through this exchange and I'm now prepared to render a decision.



I award a large, uppercase L to Darth_Vader.

Posted by Teague
The Shoals, AL
Member since Aug 2007
22277 posts
Posted on 5/15/18 at 2:07 pm to
On a related note:

I've always found it impossible to imagine NOTHING. Is it even possible for nothing to exist? The human mindset is to assume there was a beginning because we watch the rearrangement of energy on a daily basis and imagine it as birth. But, I'm inclined to believe there was always something. I think that's as plausible as there ever having been nothing. Energy exists, and always has (my thinking, not fact) and it just perpetually changes.
Posted by geauxtigers810
baton rouge
Member since Jun 2004
588 posts
Posted on 5/15/18 at 2:11 pm to
Every thousand years
This metal sphere
Ten times the size of Jupiter
Floats just a few yards past the earth
You climb on your roof
And take a swipe at it
With a single feather
Hit it once every thousand years
'Til you've worn it down
To the size of a pea
Yeah I'd say that's a long time
But it's only half a blink
In the place you're gonna be
Posted by Snipe
Member since Nov 2015
17180 posts
Posted on 5/15/18 at 2:14 pm to
quote:

Haha no I’m serious. I’m just curious as to what people think.


Why don't you science bro?
Posted by Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
62294 posts
Posted on 5/15/18 at 2:17 pm to
quote:

How old is Earth?


It's old as dirt.
Posted by Teague
The Shoals, AL
Member since Aug 2007
22277 posts
Posted on 5/15/18 at 2:27 pm to
quote:

Every thousand years
This metal sphere
Ten times the size of Jupiter
Floats just a few yards past the earth
You climb on your roof
And take a swipe at it
With a single feather
Hit it once every thousand years
'Til you've worn it down
To the size of a pea
Yeah I'd say that's a long time
But it's only half a blink
In the place you're gonna be



Alright then. Two of 'em. Both had my father in 'em . It's peculiar. I'm older now then he ever was by twenty years. So in a sense he's the younger man. Anyway, first one I don't remember too well but it was about meeting him in town somewhere, he's gonna give me some money. I think I lost it. The second one, it was like we was both back in older times and I was on horseback goin' through the mountains of a night. Goin' through this pass in the mountains. It was cold and there was snow on the ground and he rode past me and kept on goin'. Never said nothin' goin' by. He just rode on past... and he had his blanket wrapped around him and his head down and when he rode past I seen he was carryin' fire in a horn the way people used to do and I could see the horn from the light inside of it. 'Bout the color of the moon. And in the dream I knew that he was goin' on ahead and he was fixin' to make a fire somewhere out there in all that dark and all that cold, and I knew that whenever I got there he would be there. And then I woke up...
Posted by K E V 8 4
Member since Jul 2010
628 posts
Posted on 5/15/18 at 2:32 pm to
Not sure whether this has been posted, but this is the final paragraph from Hawking's Brief History of Time

quote:

However, if we do discover a complete theory, it should in time be understandable in broad principle by everyone, not just a few scientists. Then we shall all, philosophers, scientists, and just ordinary people, be able to take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason – for then we would know the mind of God.


I think he later had misgivings about that ending which sounded like he wasn't an atheist, when he had pretty much landed confidently on that (atheist) side.

I like the original ending as it points out the disconnect and circular logic that others have been pointing out.
Posted by GeauxTigerTM
Member since Sep 2006
30596 posts
Posted on 5/15/18 at 2:48 pm to
quote:

The statement was to illustrate that for something to exist it has to be created. And you can’t create something from nothing. Everything in this universe, every atom, had to be created from something that already existed. All I’ve done is to wonder what was it that existed and what caused it to become all the matter that exists in the universe from the beginning to this day.


Again...this is a contradiction.

You claim everything must have a first cause...except for whatever that first cause was.

It's just special pleading.

LINK

quote:

This question has been asked since the dawn of conscious thought.


Not for very long, because it doesn't take much reasoning to see the circular argument. As soon as you realize it can't be made without deciding that your infinite regression eventually has to stop at some point you must conclude that if ONE thing is outside of the argument (all things have a cause) then ALL things could exist without a cause.

The only "out" is to ignore the original premise in favor of that one thing that doesn't fit your original parameters.
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