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re: How old is Earth?
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:14 pm to Darth_Vader
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:14 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
This is a lame attempt at avoiding the question.
Not at all, you're playing God of the Gaps while ignoring the irony of your position.
We don't know the answer to the question so you fill in the gap with "God".
Meanwhile, using "there must be a start" to it all therefore God, ignores the the irony that "God" would presumably have no starting point either.
2
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:14 pm to Darth_Vader
Hmm...Well I believe the development of gravity covers how expanding particles became planets. But I'd never suggest astrophysics isn't a mind frick
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:24 pm to Teague
quote:
The notion that there HAS to be a beginning or start to the universe is where you're making a human leap. Who says? Maybe there was a beginning to the energy that created the Big Bang. Maybe there wasn't. We don't know. And any argument you make to the contrary can be applied to a god.
Then where did all of this come from? From you and me to the planets, stars, galaxies, nebula, black holes, quasars, and all the matter in the universe. It had to come from somewhere, some source had to produce all the matter that is in the universe. My question is what was the source of all the matter in the universe? The Big Bang theory says it all came from one “singularity” of some sort of sub-atomic particle. I question that notion on the grounds it’s absurd for all matter in the universe to just “explode” from one single sub-atomic particle. Furthermore, even if it did happen, where did that sub-atomic particle come from? What was it? And what made it explode? You claim to beleive in science. But does science not tell us to question everything? That being the case, why get so defensive when questions are put forth?
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:25 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
No matter what you do, you can’t get past the fact there has to be a beginning to all this, something that started it all. Something can’t just appear from nothing. And all the “somethings” in the universe had to come from somewhere.
Do you not see the obvious contradiction in these two sentences?
All you're doing in attempting to special plead your way out of the fact that if everything has to have a first cause, then so would the thing you want to make exempt from that same rule. I.E God
And if you're willing to allow for that rule to be broken for your pet belief, why not save the step and simply acknowledge that there is not a first cause needed for anything?
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:27 pm to Darth_Vader
are yall really arguing about how the fricking universe was created
let us know if you figure it out, tia
let us know if you figure it out, tia
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:28 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
That being the case, why get so defensive when questions are put forth?
like always, the only person getting defensive here is you
you stated that there has to be an origin to all of this, we are simply questioning whether that is true or not
and you yourself have already stated that not everything has to have an origin, which is how you keep contradicting yourself
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:29 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
I question that notion on the grounds it’s absurd for all matter in the universe to just “explode” from one single sub-atomic particle.
Nothing more than an Argument from Incredulity.
LINK
Your personal inability to believe a thing in no way invalidates it's possibility.
quote:
But does science not tell us to question everything? That being the case, why get so defensive when questions are put forth?
Because you're not being honest in asking the questions? You're asking many questions to which you know there are already no available answers under the assumption that a non answer gives you room to assert any old belief into that gap. It really doesn't, though...
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:30 pm to McAtiger
My calculations say it's only about 3 thousand years old.
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:31 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
We don't know the answer to the question so you fill in the gap with "God".
I follow you. I try to wrap my head around the whole concept of "ex nihilo" and it just frustrates the hell out of me.
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:31 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
But does science not tell us to question everything?
The answer to this is "Not yet".
We are always searching for answers and we have continuously throughout the course of human history found answers.
We didn't know what an atom was, or what bacteria was. We didn't know the Earth revolved around the Sun, etc.
We don't stop looking for answers and then insert whatever subjective deity we happen to believe in.
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:34 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
Do you not see the obvious contradiction in these two sentences?
There is no contradiction to my statement. I’m saying there has to be a source for all he matter in the universe. Something, some sort of process had to make all the matter in the universe. It didn’t just wink into existence from nothing.
quote:
All you're doing in attempting to special plead your way out of the fact that if everything has to have a first cause, then so would the thing you want to make exempt from that same rule. I.E God
And if you're willing to allow for that rule to be broken for your pet belief, why not save the step and simply acknowledge that there is not a first cause needed for anything?
You’re putting words into my mouth. I’ve not said anything about god. I think that’s where this conversation is getting off track. You’re hardwired for the hair on your back to stand up anytime you think someone is trying to argue there is a god. But I’ve not injected god into this conversation. All I’ve done is question the Big Bang being the source for creating the universe. I’ve not put forth any answers to this question as I do not have any evidence to back up any personal Belief on this subject. But having said that, I also don’t just blindly accept the Big Bang just because it’s the current “right” thinking according to “science”. I have said it’s possible for there to have been a Big Bang. But even if there was, it still can’t answer creation because for there to have been a Big Bang, something already had to exist.
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:34 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
The answer to this is "Not yet".
We are always searching for answers and we have continuously throughout the course of human history found answers.
We didn't know what an atom was, or what bacteria was. We didn't know the Earth revolved around the Sun, etc.
We don't stop looking for answers and then insert whatever subjective deity we happen to believe in.
Added to that, the fact that science self corrects and gets sharper over time is NOT an argument that it was "wrong" before so it'll be "wrong" again. Always loved this essay by Isaac Asimov...
The Relativity of Wrong
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:35 pm to Salmon
quote:
and you yourself have already stated that not everything has to have an origin, which is how you keep contradicting yourself
Where did I say not everything has to have an origin? That’s the exact opposite of what I’ve been saying.
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:36 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
You’re putting words into my mouth. I’ve not said anything about god. I think that’s where this conversation is getting off track. You’re hardwired for the hair on your back to stand up anytime you think someone is trying to argue there is a god. But I’ve not injected god into this conversation.
I'm gonna stop here, because I actually have a little more respect for your posts on this forum to allow you to argue that you're not doing exactly that.
I'd expect you to be more honest than this.
Carry on folks...
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:36 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
There is no contradiction to my statement. I’m saying there has to be a source for all he matter in the universe. Something, some sort of process had to make all the matter in the universe. It didn’t just wink into existence from nothing.
I just...
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:38 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Where did I say not everything has to have an origin? That’s the exact opposite of what I’ve been saying.
quote:
That doesn’t make sense. If something “created god” then wouldn’t that thing be God? And if not, what created it? And wouldn’t whatever thing is that created the thing that created “god” be itself God?
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:42 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
I'm gonna stop here, because I actually have a little more respect for your posts on this forum to allow you to argue that you're not doing exactly that.
I'd expect you to be more honest than this.
Carry on folks..
I’m not making any argument “for” anything other than to question the accepted status quo when it comes to the Big Bang being the origin of the universe. I beleive in logic, and from a logical standpoint, the Big Bang theory falls short I’m at least a couple of regards. It’s possible it happened, yes. But to be the event that “created” the universe? I don’t think so.
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:43 pm to Salmon
I was not arguing for any god. I was answering a post where someone said something about creating a god.
You still can’t point to where I claimed something could be created from nothing and have no origin.
You still can’t point to where I claimed something could be created from nothing and have no origin.
This post was edited on 5/15/18 at 1:45 pm
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:45 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
I’m not making any argument “for” anything other than to question the accepted status quo when it comes to the Big Bang being the origin of the universe. I beleive in logic, and from a logical standpoint, the Big Bang theory falls short I’m at least a couple of regards. It’s possible it happened, yes. But to be the event that “created” the universe? I don’t think so.
It's what all available data points to. What was before that is a mystery.
Please give us your hypothesis based on the available data.
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:45 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:You are conflating or confusing two different points. Big bang focuses on how space itself came into being...expecting from a sub-atomic point with all the universes matter and energy condensed.
From you and me to the planets, stars, galaxies, nebula, black holes, quasars, and all the matter in the universe. It had to come from somewhere, some source had to produce all the matter that is in the universe. My question is what was the source of all the matter in the universe? The Big Bang theory says it all came from one “singularity” of some sort of sub-atomic particle. I question that notion on the grounds it’s absurd for all matter in the universe to just “explode” from one single sub-atomic particle.
How planets and stars and form is a bit of a different question and a bit lengthy to get into for a post like this. Watch a youtube video. It would take me like 3 pages to explain nebular hypothesis. Not an expert (I'm a software engineer lol), so I don't know it well enough to be concise.
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