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Message
re: Hobby Lobby defies shutdown order, begins re-opening stores
Posted on 4/1/20 at 4:05 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Posted on 4/1/20 at 4:05 pm to RogerTheShrubber
You rail against the federal and state government yet clothe yourself in its protections daily.
0
Posted on 4/1/20 at 4:05 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
The mortality rate for life is 100%. Don't forget that.
Yeah I get this, but I actually value my life and other people's lives so I would rather be responsible with it.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 4:10 pm to ell_13
quote:
Small minority and not worth it.
Like everything else since the beginning of this thing, you're wrong. Comparatively, hospitals in Louisiana are seeing an exponentially increase in admits of young, healthy people with COVID. Now, they typically have good outcomes but they still require and use medical resources until the outcome is achieved.
That stresses the system.
quote:
People get sick and die. Even Previously healthy ones. I have sympathy for those people. They’d get medical attention in any situation though fwiw. So they aren’t really a factor here.
You aren't making any sense. If in a typical system, your admitted population of 18-49 year olds is X such that your system is set up to cover that number and then it suddenly shifts to 3X, you will have a problem.
That's what is happening.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 4:12 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
We shouldn't ever sacrifice liberty for safety
Yeah, why can't I sell cancer medicine made out of sugar water? If cancer patients don't like the effects they just won't buy it anymore!!!
Posted on 4/1/20 at 4:13 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Kind of like what's going on in grocery stores now, am I right?
But I need my chips, ice cream and soda pop.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 4:14 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:An exponential increase is true for every data point. Even if it goes from 2 to 4 to 8. Still a small minority.
hospitals in Louisiana are seeing an exponentially increase in admits of young, healthy people with COVID
quote:No. my point is those younger healthy people would get care over the old and unhealthy which are taking up most of the space. Italy is doing it that way. That’s my point. That young and healthy group gets attention regardless.
If in a typical system, your admitted population of 18-49 year olds is X such that your system is set up to cover that number and then it suddenly shifts to 3X, you will have a problem.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 4:15 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
I understand them in principle but when you start opening up for business again the virus will still be there, just as infectious as ever, and come fall we'll start seeing the same trends once again.
I don't understand how this concept is difficult for so many to grasp. But at that point when things begin to open back up, we don't have a fricked up beyond repair health care system. It also gives manufacturers time to supply the quantities needed for PPE, meds, etc. Right now many hospitals are running very low on PPE and they haven't hit the peak yet. The goal would likely be for the manufacturing side of masks, etc to be at a point where people can wear it out in public. No one is stopping this virus, but if done properly it can be managed.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 4:16 pm to TigerstuckinMS
quote:
I believe the thinking is that at some point the peaks get lower and lower until it becomes like the flu: endemic and seasonal, but with enough residual conferred immunity (and hopefully additional artificial immunity from a vaccine) from year to year that an overwhelming number of people don't get it every covid season.
This is how I see it.
We were relatively unprepared across the board. The idea is to keep it at a low enough level that we minimize or eliminate points where the effects overwhelm our system.
It gives more time to develop effective treatment or vaccination, which also will minimize spikes. Covid may never fully die out, but the idea is that high levels of new cases are systemically unfeasible, but could continue for a long time.
We may wind up with recurrent Covid, but hopefully at a lower level where it can't overwhelm our system at a time when we still don't understand much of it.
Like I was posting earlier, the problem with a novel virus is that it takes a long time to go from zero to herd immunity, even if it's spreading fast enough to hammer society.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 4:21 pm to ell_13
quote:
An exponential increase is true for every data point. Even if it goes from 2 to 4 to 8. Still a small minority.
Either you don't grasp what I'm saying or you are just completely ignoring the ramification.
It's not eight people - its 100s of people.
quote:
No. my point is those younger healthy people would get care over the old and unhealthy which are taking up most of the space. Italy is doing it that way. That’s my point. That young and healthy group gets attention regardless.
Italy's health care systems are in shambles which has lead to a ridiculously high mortality rate and - which seems to be your chief concern - a full lockdown of the entire country because of it.
Through one side of your mouth, you are arguing that the lockdown should end but out the other side you are arguing against every effective measure to end it quickly.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 4:24 pm to CaptainPanic
I'm beginning to think many of the loudest fear mongers on here have AIDs, it is not the old because they have a sense of perspective. It appears to be younger males.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 4:25 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
We shouldn't ever sacrifice liberty for safety.
Because being asked nicely to stay home to stop the spread of a virus is the same as taxation without representation and the quartering of soldiers.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 4:26 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:only 490 people are in ICU in all of Louisiana. There are not hundreds in the 18-49 range.
It's not eight people - its 100s of people
quote:You brought up the concern that this also affects young healthy people. I agree. But I’m saying they’re not a factor because would get taken care of regardless with the worst hypothetical being an overrun system. So while it feels good to be concerned about that group, they will always have the access they need. It’s a non-starter. Irrelevant to the people this is trying to “protect” so they don’t overrun the system: old and unhealthy people.
Italy's health care systems are in shambles which has lead to a ridiculously high mortality rate and - which seems to be your chief concern - a full lockdown of the entire country because of it.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 4:30 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:Ending it quickly means letting it propagate as quickly as possible. Without a vaccine, it will spread either fast or slow. We are choosing slow to protect the healthy system. The total number of infections is constant no matter what measure we take. The only variable is the amount of time it takes to get to the final “total case/death” number. From the very beginning, I’ve advocated the quarantine of the old and sick and let the rest of us live on and develop herd immunity doing out typical steps of washing often and staying home when sick. Sweden is doing just that.
Through one side of your mouth, you are arguing that the lockdown should end but out the other side you are arguing against every effective measure to end it quickly.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 4:32 pm to ZappBrannigan
quote:
Because being asked nicely to stay home to stop the spread of a virus is the same as taxation without representation and the quartering of soldiers.
People talk about the old days, Spanish Flu, etc and forget we had quarantines then too.
There's a difference between defending true liberty and being spoiled and mad you have to change your life.
I have full sympathy for people suffering from the economic impacts of this. I have way less sympathy for those who act like this is comparable to true infringement of liberty.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 4:32 pm to Antonio Moss
You know what was much much worse for the working class? Swine. It was more worse for the young and middle aged. We had to deal with over 300k more hospitalizations in less than a year in the US. How did we ever cope without that CNN ticker counting the cases and deaths?
Posted on 4/1/20 at 4:33 pm to Rep520
quote:only a few cities for Spanish flu. They faired much better... until the second wave and they were hit harder because they didn’t have as good immunity built up. Go figure.
forget we had quarantines then too.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 4:36 pm to ell_13
quote:
From the very beginning, I’ve advocated the quarantine of the old and sick and let the rest of us live on and develop herd immunity doing out typical steps of washing often and staying home when sick. Sweden is doing just that.
You were wrong then and you were wrong now.
Btw Sweden is beginning to reverse course. They banned large gatherings two days ago. Universities are closed and many stokholm businesses have voluntarily closed to the public. It's not at all "normal" life for the low risk population.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 4:39 pm to JohnnyKilroy
Well he’s trying to same I’m inconsistent. 
Story on Sweden from this morning . It’s still way more liberal.
Story on Sweden from this morning . It’s still way more liberal.
This post was edited on 4/1/20 at 4:40 pm
Posted on 4/1/20 at 4:43 pm to ell_13
quote:
In other words, the country has staked its bets on people acting responsibly.
For better or worse, large swaths of America feel it's their god given right and practically their duty to do whatever the opposite government and field experts say to do. See: the title of this thread.
This post was edited on 4/1/20 at 4:46 pm
Posted on 4/1/20 at 4:44 pm to OleWar
quote:
I'm beginning to think many of the loudest fear mongers on here have AIDs
This is the OT. It's ALWAYS AIDS.
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