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Started By
Message
re: Here's Why the Tesla Model 3 Is the Coolest Car of 2017
Posted on 11/9/17 at 10:00 am to slackster
Posted on 11/9/17 at 10:00 am to slackster
quote:
Like many tech companies, the fanboys can turn off the neutral folks. I'm not suggesting that's a logical reason to dislike Tesla, but it happens.
Agreed. It’s just funny that Trump was elected running on MAGA and job creation but many Trump supporters want to see Musk/Tesla/SpaceX fail despite it being an American company that has created an estimated 35,000 jobs. Zero logic in that.
1
Posted on 11/9/17 at 10:00 am to slackster
quote:See, we are on the same page!!!!
I'm not suggesting that's a logical reason to dislike Tesla
Posted on 11/9/17 at 10:00 am to slackster
quote:
He basically said company valuation techniques are dead, and even the prospect of being profitable is irrelevant if you're considered a disruptive company. Thought it was a pretty interesting perspective
Fair enough, but Tesla now has to compete in a world where autonomous technology exists at all luxury manufacturers and long range EV's are available from GM, Nissan, Mercedes, BMW, Volvo, and Toyota.
What specifically is the Model 3 disrupting especially given how late it is?
This post was edited on 11/9/17 at 10:01 am
Posted on 11/9/17 at 10:01 am to member12
quote:On this board, Tesla is absolutely viewed less favorably specifically due to subsidies. You know that.
It's not.
Posted on 11/9/17 at 10:02 am to LSURussian
quote:
Without the federal tax credits Tesla receives every year, they would have gone out of business years ago.
This is true for many, MANY companies. Hell, most Telecoms would've been out of business in the 80s/90s if not for government subsidies, and a lot of small telcos still would be struggling mightily without subsidies.
I don't understand how that statement is an indictment on Tesla.
Posted on 11/9/17 at 10:02 am to LSURussian
Is that considered a quirk?
Posted on 11/9/17 at 10:03 am to PearlJam
A local radio show host put a deposit down on a model 3. He said he got an email recently from Tesla talking about the delay in production volume. He is now expected to have his car ready...in 2019.
Posted on 11/9/17 at 10:03 am to PearlJam
quote:But the posts absolutely don't read that way.
I don't think anyone has an issue with your friend being content to wait for his car. I think the issue being brought up is with the long term viability of Tesla and the repeated failures to meet targets.
If all people are saying is that's a bad business strategy I 100% agree.
But I also think people have quoted the same exact post you quoted here and mocked my friend and used the term "fanboy" because he still wants a car that will be delayed. I can probably find the exact post, that's the silliness I take exception.
All the business stuff and aspects of it, I don't take exceptions to.
Posted on 11/9/17 at 10:04 am to shel311
quote:
Also, I still don't get your point entirely. He likes the car, he knows the car will come in later than December of this year. He likes the car enough to wait a bit longer to get it. What's your issue? I honestly don't get it.
I just find it a bit comical that you need to expect delays on the delivery of every Tesla ever. Wouldn't it be preferable if you could get the car when Musk says it will be delivered?
I can't imagine people like the fact that Tesla disappoints on delivery of every vehicle.
You can still like them with that fact, but surely you understand why others would be turned off.
Posted on 11/9/17 at 10:05 am to Hulkklogan
quote:i think that IS an indictment of Tesla.
I don't understand how that statement is an indictment on Tesla.
But to your point, on this board Tesla is the only company we rail on for that. And I'm pretty confident a lot of those same folks who shite on Tesla for that are probably fanboys and have products from other companies who are in similar situations.
Posted on 11/9/17 at 10:07 am to Hulkklogan
quote:
This is true for many, MANY companies. Hell, most Telecoms would've been out of business in the 80s/90s if not for government subsidies, and a lot of small telcos still would be struggling mightily without subsidies.
I don't understand how that statement is an indictment on Tesla.
There are people who are hypocritical with this complaint, no doubt, but plenty of others dislike all subsidies regardless of company.
Posted on 11/9/17 at 10:07 am to shel311
quote:
Tesla is absolutely viewed less favorably specifically due to subsidies
Incorrect. It's viewed as less favorable because it is entirely dependent on credits and subsidies that may not be around for much longer, it's founder and CEO regularly over promises and under delivers, it is no longer a disruptive force in the market, the company can't make money selling anything but tax credits, and somehow is still valued by investors as a disruptive force.
This post was edited on 11/9/17 at 10:09 am
Posted on 11/9/17 at 10:07 am to member12
quote:
It's not. I'm just pointing out that the old, lethargic Detroit company beat Musk to market by as much as a year to the affordable long range electric vehicle market. You seriously don't see a problem with that?
Volt = 53 mile all electric range
Model 3 = 220 - 310 mile (depending on battery) all electric range
They are both “electric cars”, but I wouldn’t say GM beat Tesla. If anything, Nissan beat Tesla to market, but with a subpar product. Regardless, no I don’t really see it as a problem.
This post was edited on 11/9/17 at 10:08 am
Posted on 11/9/17 at 10:08 am to slackster
quote:Yes, yes that would be preferable. Not to sound like a broken record, but I still don't understand your overriding point.
I just find it a bit comical that you need to expect delays on the delivery of every Tesla ever. Wouldn't it be preferable if you could get the car when Musk says it will be delivered?
quote:I don't imagine they do either. But when you go into it knowing and expecting the delay, it's not a surprise, so it would obviously lessen that disappointment.
I can't imagine people like the fact that Tesla disappoints on delivery of every vehicle.
quote:Yes, I do. But I don't get why that makes them a "blind fanboy." Like I said if you know you prefer this car and will be driving it for 5-10 years, isn't it logical in many cases to wait a few extra months or even a year as opposed to settling for a car you know you don't like as much but will have to drive for that same 5-10 years?
You can still like them with that fact, but surely you understand why others would be turned off.
Posted on 11/9/17 at 10:09 am to member12
quote:This dude keeps agreeing with me while telling me he disagrees with me. That's twice now.
Incorrect. It's viewed as less favorable because it is entirely dependent on credits and subsidies that may not be around for much longer
Posted on 11/9/17 at 10:09 am to shel311
The fact is that Musk is trying to innovate in many technological areas, which is often not a very profitable endeavor. Particularly when some of the major innovations bucks the oil/gas industry.
I think with the cost of launching rockets coming down, and if the Model 3 can really take off as an affordable commuter car, then they may be able to start turning a profit. But it's not going to be a small feat, and they will likely require government subsidies for quite a while to do so.
I can understand that.
I think with the cost of launching rockets coming down, and if the Model 3 can really take off as an affordable commuter car, then they may be able to start turning a profit. But it's not going to be a small feat, and they will likely require government subsidies for quite a while to do so.
quote:
but plenty of others dislike all subsidies regardless of company.
I can understand that.
This post was edited on 11/9/17 at 10:11 am
Posted on 11/9/17 at 10:11 am to shel311
quote:Someone that wants a car so badly that they will endure a year long delay after putting down a deposit probably is a fanboy. That doesn't really matter to me other than the fact the the long term prospects of the company aren't good if they are going to regularly have to rely on consumers to have the patience of people like your friend.
But I also think people have quoted the same exact post you quoted here and mocked my friend and used the term "fanboy" because he still wants a car that will be delayed. I can probably find the exact post, that's the silliness I take exception.
Posted on 11/9/17 at 10:11 am to shel311
quote:
Yes, yes that would be preferable. Not to sound like a broken record, but I still don't understand your overriding point.
I'm pointing out reasons people are critical of Tesla/Musk.
If your buddy loves the car, it's fine he wants to wait for it.
Posted on 11/9/17 at 10:14 am to jordan21210
quote:
Volt = 53 mile all electric rang
Chevy Bolt =220- 250 mile range. And it was on sale a year ago for $30,000 after credits. You can pick one up right now if you wanted.
This post was edited on 11/9/17 at 10:17 am
Posted on 11/9/17 at 10:14 am to shel311
quote:Okay, I did. And I didn't see a single post saying it's their "main gripe" about Tesla. Please link to a post that says that. Thanks.
Who in this thread has said that it their "main gripe" with Tesla?
Read page 1
quote:I don't hate Musk. I simple don't trust him when it comes to anything he says Tesla is going to do within the time frame he predicts.
You're being horribly disingenuous if you don't think the subsidies isn't arguably the top gripe from posters who hate Elon.
As I wrote earlier, it's actually a credit to him that he continues to issue forecasts and keeps missing them horribly and yet he continues to attract investors.
He's fortunate in that because Tesla has had to rely on increasing debt and/or issuing new shares of stock every year since he bought Tesla just to meet payroll. They continue to hemorrhage cash.
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