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re: Has anyone talked about the Mr. Beast guy (Chris) going trans?

Posted on 4/13/23 at 7:48 pm to
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
37817 posts
Posted on 4/13/23 at 7:48 pm to
quote:

Exactly, they're referred to you. The answer is "nothing." You don't diagnose, you evaluate.



What the frick are you talking about?
Posted by mmcgrath
Indianapolis
Member since Feb 2010
36634 posts
Posted on 4/13/23 at 7:49 pm to
quote:

Dude had a wife and 2 kids and just went trans and said frick all that out of nowhere.


"Out of nowhere"?

Posted by SuperSaint
Sorting Out OT BS Since '2007'
Member since Sep 2007
144848 posts
Posted on 4/13/23 at 7:49 pm to
quote:

Oh wow, you want to hear about my anecdata now?
my anecdata don't want none unless you got some son!
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
137032 posts
Posted on 4/13/23 at 7:50 pm to
quote:

I actually have a lot. My best friend transitioned in 2014 through that I met a lot of people who transitioned before I even went into medicine. I have a wide variety of experiences both personally, in research and in-clinic environments which are pretty extensive. It's obviously above your pay grade though.


Ok, so you don't have anything of substance to say. Thanks.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
37817 posts
Posted on 4/13/23 at 8:05 pm to
I mean, I generally just try to call bad-faith morons here as what they are, but I'll engage with you.

Firstly, there are categories of gender dysphoria cases that are categorized as gender dysphoria with DSD (or developmental sex disorders) and gender dysphoria without DSDs. The research in developmental sex disorders only really started finding distinct genetic origins for these disorders after the 1990s. For example, XY gonadal dysgenesis was linked to the MAP3K1 gene and the MIER3 gene on chromosome 5, and that link was only established in 2003. A loss of function mutation in FGFR2 leading to XY reversal was only described in 2008. Because of the rate at which we can start accurately describing both pathologic and genetic trends, of course there is going to be a rise in gender dysphoria cases overall. It's not something sinister unless you want to look at it that way and that way alone. Since 2019, we've discovered estrogen receptor site mutations that could possibly mediate estrogen resistance in a way not dissimilar to androgen insensitivity syndrome. In one sense, there was always going to be an increase in the rate of cases because we had pathologic frameworks with which to describe diseases. I spoke to one endocrinologist who said he stopped karyotyping kids who presented with refractory gender dysphoria because the presentations between children who had a known DSD and no defined DSD were very similar. The preliminary brain scan data, which showed that trans people had brain scans more similar to their identified gender than their identified gender regardless of the presence of a DSD shows suggests a multifactorial neuroendocrine etiology likely to do with dysfunction along the HPA axis, not unlike other disorders of sex development like congenital adrenal hyperplasia. My personal theory, given some informal interviews, along with some of the newer genetic data, suggests something like transient cortisol dysfunction during key weeks in pregnancy can have profound changes along the HPA axis, which at least gives a pathologic framework.
This post was edited on 4/13/23 at 8:06 pm
Posted by lsuguy84
CO
Member since Feb 2009
25019 posts
Posted on 4/13/23 at 8:07 pm to
Posted by BigDropper
Member since Jul 2009
8147 posts
Posted on 4/13/23 at 8:12 pm to
How much does he win if he does it for a full year?
Posted by Warfox
B.R. Native (now in MA)
Member since Apr 2017
3576 posts
Posted on 4/13/23 at 8:15 pm to
That’s fine and all, but I don’t understand why they utilize hormone therapy? That will NEVER make them into that which they desire: of the opposite biological sex…what’s the point?

Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
137032 posts
Posted on 4/13/23 at 8:17 pm to
So this is what explains the meteoric rise in transgender kids? A sudden medical discovery over the past few years?
Posted by Ross
Member since Oct 2007
47825 posts
Posted on 4/13/23 at 8:22 pm to
quote:

The preliminary brain scan data, which showed that trans people had brain scans more similar to their identified gender than their identified gender


you probably meant for one of these to be the actual phenotype of the subject, but from my current understanding it is seen as pretty controversial to claim there are traits inherent to each biological sex that one could reliably identify via brain imaging alone.
This post was edited on 4/13/23 at 8:23 pm
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
37817 posts
Posted on 4/13/23 at 8:28 pm to
quote:

That’s fine and all, but I don’t understand why they utilize hormone therapy? That will NEVER make them into that which they desire: of the opposite biological sex…what’s the point?



Well, the use of 'hormone' therapy means a lot of things. The current protocol that is being used is called The Dutch Protocol, developed in the Netherlands around 2013. That protocol was developed specifically to deal with cases of refractory gender dysphoria cases. For example, in the one clinic I rotated through, there were two separate psychiatrists who needed to arrive at the diagnosis of gender dysphoria independently of one another. The reason why I'm very skeptical of the claim that anyone is pushing these kids (outside of some possible outliers) is that the parents brought up these concerns themselves, concerns such as the child had a strong desire to be of the other gender, etc., and were only referred out after symptoms persisted for a long while. The DSM says that symptoms should persist for six months, but in my experience, the symptoms were present for longer than that.

Regardless, the protocol suggests that what these patients fear is the irreversibility of puberty, as one characteristic of GD in adolescents is the desire to 'be rid' of the patients primary and secondary sex characteristics. Using things like GnRH agonists (the so-called puberty blockers) is supposed to be used in conjunction with therapy to try to get the patient to accept the changes in their body, but at this point you are dealing with individuals who have had symptoms and diagnoses of gender dysphoria for years, and I have no real insight into what that therapy process should look like or how it is in practice.

Once hormone therapy is started, the decision has been made to allow them to transition to their desired sex, but it the last line of a much longer process.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
37817 posts
Posted on 4/13/23 at 8:32 pm to
quote:

but from my current understanding it is seen as pretty controversial to claim there are traits inherent to each biological sex that one could reliably identify via brain imaging alone.


Yeah, I didn't word that properly, and the differences in the brain scan data all had to do with the sizes of different nuclei in the hypothalamus, which aren't definitive in terms of assigning sex, but in the framework of a larger constellation of evidence, it might be meaningful. The study that did come out was only an abstract I think, and I don't think that full study has been published, or reproduced, but my suspicion is that some dysfunction along the HPA axis can explain the cases of gender dysphoria without a definite DSD.
Posted by lsufan9193969700
Madisonville
Member since Sep 2003
55708 posts
Posted on 4/13/23 at 8:35 pm to
I don't know who these people are or why I should care.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
37817 posts
Posted on 4/13/23 at 8:39 pm to
quote:

So this is what explains the meteoric rise in transgender kids? A sudden medical discovery over the past few years?



I keep seeing this repeated without seeing the actual data, but relative to where we were in the description of the disease 30 years ago, that is the easiest explanation. As we get better at defining and categorizing a disease, the incidence and prevalence statistics should go up. The issue with gender dysphoria is that I don't know how robust using the DSM-V characteristics are with respect to diagnostic sensitivity, given the absence of a pathognomonic sign or a more definitive test. The one thing that does aid the current diagnostic categories is the sheer duration with which patients have to have symptoms in order to receive a diagnosis.
Posted by Ross
Member since Oct 2007
47825 posts
Posted on 4/13/23 at 8:41 pm to
quote:

Yeah, I didn't word that properly, and the differences in the brain scan data all had to do with the sizes of different nuclei in the hypothalamus, which aren't definitive in terms of assigning sex, but in the framework of a larger constellation of evidence, it might be meaningful. The study that did come out was only an abstract I think, and I don't think that full study has been published, or reproduced, but my suspicion is that some dysfunction along the HPA axis can explain the cases of gender dysphoria without a definite DSD.


Can you lay out for the O-T what the larger constellation of evidence might look like for a hypothetical patient?
Posted by chalmetteowl
Chalmette
Member since Jan 2008
51826 posts
Posted on 4/13/23 at 8:43 pm to
quote:

Mr. Beast Who the frick is this?


Maker of shitty candy bars?
Posted by MrLSU
Yellowstone, Val d'isere
Member since Jan 2004
28288 posts
Posted on 4/13/23 at 8:45 pm to
What a coincidence! My three tran children follow him [her].
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
137032 posts
Posted on 4/13/23 at 8:51 pm to
quote:

I keep seeing this repeated without seeing the actual data, but relative to where we were in the description of the disease 30 years ago, that is the easiest explanation. As we get better at defining and categorizing a disease, the incidence and prevalence statistics should go up. The issue with gender dysphoria is that I don't know how robust using the DSM-V characteristics are with respect to diagnostic sensitivity, given the absence of a pathognomonic sign or a more definitive test. The one thing that does aid the current diagnostic categories is the sheer duration with which patients have to have symptoms in order to receive a diagnosis.



I get that you're trying to approach this from a medical stance, but I think the social influence of this is 99% of the issue. I can't fathom how we've gone thousands of years as a species without this issue then a massive spike in the last decade.
Posted by St Augustine
The Pauper of the Surf
Member since Mar 2006
68977 posts
Posted on 4/13/23 at 8:54 pm to
And not only a massive spike but spikes in friend groups, especially young girls.
Posted by RobbBobb
Matt Flynn, BCS MVP
Member since Feb 2007
31191 posts
Posted on 4/13/23 at 9:12 pm to
quote:

Well, your anecdotal experience obviously completely negates the sharp rise in child transgenderism.

Its been around forever, and its increase in current society is specifically linked to access to social media. Its correct terminology shouldnt be transgender, because its clearly . . . .

Munchausen syndrome by proxy
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