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re: Ever-Lasting Life through Digital Simulation
Posted on 10/4/19 at 1:28 pm to ragincajun77
Posted on 10/4/19 at 1:28 pm to ragincajun77
You should read Permutation City.
Obvious moral/religious issues with the idea aside, the book highlites another often unconsidered one anytime this sort of pitch comes up; computing power.
The computing power required to create even a single person’s eternal digital utopia would be monumental. Doing that for every person on the planet is nearly unfathomable. That was one of the things I enjoyed in the Permutation City story; the functioning of the strained market for the computing power used to create these digital copies of people.
Obvious moral/religious issues with the idea aside, the book highlites another often unconsidered one anytime this sort of pitch comes up; computing power.
The computing power required to create even a single person’s eternal digital utopia would be monumental. Doing that for every person on the planet is nearly unfathomable. That was one of the things I enjoyed in the Permutation City story; the functioning of the strained market for the computing power used to create these digital copies of people.
3
Posted on 10/4/19 at 1:31 pm to funnystuff
Wouldn't that problem go away should quantum computing become a reality
Posted on 10/4/19 at 1:32 pm to The Dudes Rug
quote:How very Buddhist
What if we are already in the simulation and we just keep getting into a new one at the end of our life?
Posted on 10/4/19 at 1:34 pm to dbeck
quote:
How long until someone changes your utopia simulation into a dungeon porn simulation and uses you as their own personal sex slave locked in a hard drive?
Posted on 10/4/19 at 1:39 pm to funnystuff
quote:
In 2001, Nick Bostrom, a philosopher at the University of Oxford, circulated a draft of a paper suggesting that a highly advanced supercomputer - with a mass on the order of a planet - would be capable of running a simulation on a humanity-size scale. (Bostrum told Vulture that he hadn't seen "The Matrix" before publishing the paper.)
Bostrom said this computer would be capable of doing 1042 calculations per second, and it could simulate the entire history of humankind (including all our thoughts, feelings, and memories) by using less than one-millionth of its processing power for just one second.
By this logic, all of humanity and our entire physical universe are just blips of data stored in the hard drive of a massive supercomputer.
Posted on 10/4/19 at 1:39 pm to ragincajun77
Hard to say what the limits of quantum computing are, but I’d imagine it wouldn’t come close to addressing the issue.
Just think about how much computing power is required to store the current stock of simple summary statistics that firms are collecting; locations, sales, site visits, social networks, demographics, etc. Then consider how many trillions upon trillions upon trillions of extra bits would be required to generate a complete replication of the entire world for a digital copy of one person to live in. Then multiply that 10 billion times over for all of the people who will die through the end of the century.
I’d imagine we’d need to cover the entire surface of the planet with quantum computers multiple times over to even coming close to meeting that kind of processing demand.
Just think about how much computing power is required to store the current stock of simple summary statistics that firms are collecting; locations, sales, site visits, social networks, demographics, etc. Then consider how many trillions upon trillions upon trillions of extra bits would be required to generate a complete replication of the entire world for a digital copy of one person to live in. Then multiply that 10 billion times over for all of the people who will die through the end of the century.
I’d imagine we’d need to cover the entire surface of the planet with quantum computers multiple times over to even coming close to meeting that kind of processing demand.
This post was edited on 10/4/19 at 1:41 pm
Posted on 10/4/19 at 1:47 pm to The Dudes Rug
Interesting. I like Bostrom’s stuff, but hadn’t seen this paper; will have to look it up.
That said, it does seem to emphasize the problem I posed if this supercomputer has...
Long story short, I don’t see anything immediate in that proposal which alleviates the processing problem I posed.
That said, it does seem to emphasize the problem I posed if this supercomputer has...
quote:Not exactly a feasible computer if we have to double the mass of our planet to build it. Maybe we can appropriate the entirety of Mars just to support a string of massive supercomputer generated existences (and then hope that the mass change doesn’t throw its orbit completely out of wack haha). But even just acquiring the raw materials necessary to build a computer so large that it doubles the mass of a planet doesn’t seem particularly viable either.
a mass on the order of a planet
Long story short, I don’t see anything immediate in that proposal which alleviates the processing problem I posed.
Posted on 10/4/19 at 1:49 pm to funnystuff
I agree. I don't think we humans have the aptitude to create that, but I think that article assumes something else already has.
Maybe we will find out one day.
Maybe we will find out one day.
Posted on 10/4/19 at 1:57 pm to The Dudes Rug
Ah, gotcha. I’m with you now, yea, definitely not something we can rule out (which is trippy af lol).
My bad, I was still in addressing the OP mindset; assumed you meant a human created supercomputer to achieve that utopia
My bad, I was still in addressing the OP mindset; assumed you meant a human created supercomputer to achieve that utopia
Posted on 10/4/19 at 1:58 pm to funnystuff
But what if we were able to use our organic brains as the super computer necessary for artificial consciousness. A medical breakthrough that can keep the brain alive indefinitely separated from the body and then computer technology to hack your brain into a customized utopian reality.
So basically keep the brain alive on some type of artificial life support and then use technology to hack into the brain to curate your own consciousness. Your own eternal heaven
So basically keep the brain alive on some type of artificial life support and then use technology to hack into the brain to curate your own consciousness. Your own eternal heaven
Posted on 10/4/19 at 1:59 pm to funnystuff
quote:
You should read Permutation City.
Obvious moral/religious issues with the idea aside, the book highlites another often unconsidered one anytime this sort of pitch comes up; computing power.
The computing power required to create even a single person’s eternal digital utopia would be monumental.
It looks like that was written in 1994, and computing power has increased monumentally since then. You don't have to render this imaginary world in its entirety; you only need to render a certain very small section of the world around where the 'player' is currently interacting and move focus with the 'player'. Like what open-world/large map video games do now.
ETA: Alternatively, a dream already does this so the 'computing power' is there if you can harness it.
This post was edited on 10/4/19 at 2:03 pm
Posted on 10/4/19 at 2:01 pm to ragincajun77
This way you have a symbiotic relationship between the organic brain (ie the supercomputer necessary for artificial consciousness) and superior technology linked into the brain to curate that consciousness
Posted on 10/4/19 at 2:10 pm to ragincajun77
I don’t see how that alleviates the issue. You still need something to generate all of the signals that get sent into the brain.
Just think about the magnitude of code that would be necessary to theoretically reproduce whatever room you are in right now. The color of the walls, the smell of the air, the sound of the TV; all of the things you are seeing and feeling and hearing and smelling would need to be digitally codified before being fed into your brain. And then they would need to be stored so that if you ever went back into the same room you would see the same things.
Our brains can process the information they are fed, but that information would still need to be generated from somewhere. When we’re alive, that information comes from our senses and experiences. But in your scenario, it would need to be digitally generated information. And again, that would be a virtually unfathomable amount of digital information.
Just think about the magnitude of code that would be necessary to theoretically reproduce whatever room you are in right now. The color of the walls, the smell of the air, the sound of the TV; all of the things you are seeing and feeling and hearing and smelling would need to be digitally codified before being fed into your brain. And then they would need to be stored so that if you ever went back into the same room you would see the same things.
Our brains can process the information they are fed, but that information would still need to be generated from somewhere. When we’re alive, that information comes from our senses and experiences. But in your scenario, it would need to be digitally generated information. And again, that would be a virtually unfathomable amount of digital information.
Posted on 10/4/19 at 2:11 pm to funnystuff
Couldn't it come from our collective memory? I mean what is a dream but an artificial reality created by the brain
Posted on 10/4/19 at 2:14 pm to ragincajun77
The idea of living forever with no end scares the shite out of me
Posted on 10/4/19 at 2:19 pm to dbeck
quote:
How long until someone changes your utopia simulation into a dungeon porn simulation and uses you as their own personal sex slave locked in a hard drive?
And this scenario is detailed in the Black Mirror episode USS Kelvin. They really did think of everything.
Posted on 10/4/19 at 2:21 pm to jlovel7
Oh shite I remember that episode of Black Mirror. Damn that show is awesome
Posted on 10/4/19 at 2:21 pm to ragincajun77
quote:
Ever-Lasting Life through Digital Simulation
This concept has never made any sense to me. Maybe this has been addressed but I did not read ahead before writing...
Think of it this way. A digital simulation of yourself would be a copy. You're alive and at the moment of your death all of "you" gets booted into some digital form. It may be indistinguishable from who you were at the moment you died...but is it "you?"
Well, would it have been you if instead of dying, you did the same upload but lived to see it? Then there would be two of you, which would then branch off into differing people. You could not be in two places at once. You would still be "you" making that other you something or someone else.
So, for me, this seems like a great way of keeping certain people around...say incredible scientists, artists, etc. And for your loved ones it may be great to still have "you" there as well. but for you...actual you, it won;t matter at all, because "you" will have died along with your body.
Posted on 10/4/19 at 2:21 pm to ragincajun77
The brain is like any other organ so if medical science figures out how to extend its viability then I would assume it will be able to extend the rest of my body. If only the brain can remain viable I would prefer my brain be inserted into a artificial,prefabricated, cybernetic..what ever you want to call it body, and live in the real world than a digital one. i think that tech will come around sooner than the Matrix.
BTW have you watched Altered Carbon on Netflix...probably up your alley
BTW have you watched Altered Carbon on Netflix...probably up your alley
This post was edited on 10/4/19 at 2:23 pm
Posted on 10/4/19 at 2:24 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
because "you" will have died along with your body.
same problem with teleportation. You are destroyed the copy goes on..
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