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re: Euro Court of Human Rights: 10 month old baby to be taken off life support
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:34 pm to magildachunks
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:34 pm to magildachunks
quote:
Terry Schiavo
Except that her husband wanted to take her off life support in that case so....not similar at all.
2
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:34 pm to LSUBoo
quote:The answer is:
Me too. Why the frick can't the parents transport their kid wherever they want for whatever treatment they feel is best?
because governmental control
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:34 pm to ghost2most
Check page two of the link for some additional links to scientific papers at to where science is at present.
What the Mother found is so experimental, it hasn't even been tested on mice yet.
Read a few of the scientific papers and then decide for yourself if the Father's education as a Postman and the Mother can understand where treatment is for the similar treatment of mitochondrial decay tied to antiviral drugs that some people take to control HIV (which leads to liver damage).
A lot of the headlines out there don't begin to tell the whole story.
What the Mother found is so experimental, it hasn't even been tested on mice yet.
Read a few of the scientific papers and then decide for yourself if the Father's education as a Postman and the Mother can understand where treatment is for the similar treatment of mitochondrial decay tied to antiviral drugs that some people take to control HIV (which leads to liver damage).
A lot of the headlines out there don't begin to tell the whole story.
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:35 pm to chinhoyang
Did you just link a paywall? 
And man I hate to be the a-hole, but this is a great example of the differences between a truly govt run HC system and one with private funding. Considering it would be the UK govt paying for the treatment of the terminal child, how is that spending justified in any sense? It can't be without an emotional argument, so I don't see how the court would make any other decision.
Here, in what many on this board believe to be a substandard healthcare system, the baby could have been treated if the parents have the means. No questions asked. Our system could provide the access and quality of care that might have triggered a miracle. Conversely, the UK can provide access and low cost for the most basic health needs of a population. But has no way to provide the level of quality and experimental medicine truly unique conditions would require. But that system is only a fraction of GDP compared to ours.
And man I hate to be the a-hole, but this is a great example of the differences between a truly govt run HC system and one with private funding. Considering it would be the UK govt paying for the treatment of the terminal child, how is that spending justified in any sense? It can't be without an emotional argument, so I don't see how the court would make any other decision.
Here, in what many on this board believe to be a substandard healthcare system, the baby could have been treated if the parents have the means. No questions asked. Our system could provide the access and quality of care that might have triggered a miracle. Conversely, the UK can provide access and low cost for the most basic health needs of a population. But has no way to provide the level of quality and experimental medicine truly unique conditions would require. But that system is only a fraction of GDP compared to ours.
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:35 pm to real turf fan
Again, who's decision is that to make?
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:36 pm to Scruffy
quote:
Very sad but parents are irrationale (for understandable reasons) and can't see the forest through the trees. Reminds me of Schiavo case.
So, that is the government's decision to make?
Even if private funds are being used?
I kind of see this point, however, what if a child has incurable cancer and is intense pain, but the parents want to keep them alive, against all experts advice, to try some shaman in Africa. Should they be allowed?
It's the courts responsibility to protect the child from undue suffering just like they would take custody away from abusive parents. It's a sad story with no right answer.
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:36 pm to Projectpat
quote:
Except that her husband wanted to take her off life support in that case so....not similar at all.
And the government did everything they could to prevent that.
So don't act like we have a lot more freedom here.
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:36 pm to MSMHater
quote:If I am not mistaken, they raised the private funds.
Considering it would be the UK govt paying for the treatment of the terminal child, how is that spending justified in any sense?
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:37 pm to Swagga
quote:
Can someone explain to me how a court can tell a parent their child has to die? I'm completely lost on this, maybe I'm retarded.
Keeping the child alive cost money. The UK system is funded by taxpayers and spending decisions have to have rational justification. Based on the medical literature and opinion of medical professionals, this one did not.
Cold, but that's how it works.
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:38 pm to ghost2most
I take a much stronger stance if the parents expected the government to pay for a treatment that hasn't even been tried on mice yet.
Talk about waste. I'm sorry, but not all lives can be saved.
It's harsh and easy to say as it's not my child, but the parents are clearly not thinking rationally - and I don't blame them.
But this child is not "living" it's "existing" as the courts properly determined.
Talk about waste. I'm sorry, but not all lives can be saved.
It's harsh and easy to say as it's not my child, but the parents are clearly not thinking rationally - and I don't blame them.
But this child is not "living" it's "existing" as the courts properly determined.
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:39 pm to Scruffy
quote:
If I am not mistaken, they raised the private funds
Are there cash pay hospitals in the UK, capable of caring for that child, that would accept it?
ETA: I am unclear on how the courts could legally prevent the parents from bringing the child here.
This post was edited on 6/30/17 at 12:41 pm
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:40 pm to chinhoyang
quote:
British courts decided Charlie should be allowed to die after a heartbreaking legal battle in which doctors asserted that the child had no chance of survival, and Charlie's parents argued there was an experimental treatment in the United States they had not tried. The case was taken all the way to the European Court of Human Rights, which declined to hear the case Tuesday, upholding previous court rulings that it was in Charlie's best interest to withdraw life support.
If a patient is terminal what do they have to lose by trying the experimental procedure? All treatments and procedures are experimental at first so if this could help why not try it? Can see why the US leads the wirkd in deceloping medical technology, procedures and medicine. Correct me here but weren't these the parents that were going to pay for this treatment out of pocket?
quote:
The case was taken all the way to the European Court of Human Rights, which declined to hear the case Tuesday, upholding previous court rulings that it was in Charlie's best interest to withdraw life support.
Truly pathetic and it goes to show beaucrats don't give a damn about people. These trashy leftists tax out of the arse for healthcare calling it a "right" so long as beaucrats think you have a right, then you can have it.
quote:
“We know what day our son is going to die, and we don't even get any say in what happens to him,” Charlie's father said.
Of course not since beaucrats are the only ones to make that decision. Got to make sure you don't spend money on your life or loved ones they don't approve of. Some right.
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:40 pm to MSMHater
quote:Yep. I actually completely understand the system, and in many instances in my own hospital, I actually feel that this stance is justified if the individuals are on public funds.
Keeping the child alive cost money. The UK system is funded by taxpayers and spending decisions have to have rational justification. Based on the medical literature and opinion of medical professionals, this one did not.
Cold, but that's how it works.
That may sound counter to my previous statements, but as long as a person is using public funds, the individual cedes the right to the decision on how the funds should be used, imo.
Private funds are a different matter.
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:42 pm to real turf fan
quote:
Read a few of the scientific papers and then decide for yourself if the Father's education as a Postman and the Mother can understand where treatment is for the similar treatment of mitochondrial decay tied to antiviral drugs that some people take to control HIV (which leads to liver damage).
Yeah. It's a tragic story but the parents are in denial if they think the infant can survive a transatlantic trip and be cured with a treatment not even designed to treat their child's genetic deformity.
This isn't some disease attacking the baby. The baby's own dna is incapable of supporting mitochondria which is vital to life.
It's a sad situation all around
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:42 pm to chinhoyang
I can hear keyboard warriors on Facebook triggered everywhere
This post was edited on 6/30/17 at 12:44 pm
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:44 pm to Scruffy
quote:
Yep. I actually completely understand the system, and in many instances in my own hospital, I actually feel that this stance is justified if the individuals are on public funds
Yep. The "Medicare for all" crowd has to realize this. It's also why i believe we'll never have a truly single payer system in this country. i don't think you'll ever have enough people willing to give up life/death decisions to financial actuaries. There will always be a private market here.
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:44 pm to chinhoyang
What the hell kind of people are these "doctors" and "justices"?
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:45 pm to LSUBoo
quote:
Can someone explain to me how a court can tell a parent their child has to die? I'm completely lost on this, maybe I'm retarded.
Me too. Why the frick can't the parents transport their kid wherever they want for whatever treatment they feel is best?
Because they don't have any money and all of the kids Healthcare is funded by the state?
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:48 pm to Breesus
quote:
Because they don't have any money and all of the kids Healthcare is funded by the state?
I think in this case, the parents crowdfunded $1.3 million and they still would not release the child to the parents.
I heard it on ben Shapiro's podcast yesterday.
This post was edited on 6/30/17 at 12:49 pm
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:48 pm to ghost2most
quote:
I'd like to know more about this experimental treatment. With a child in that condition, as heartbreaking as it is, it truly sounds like there's no hope.
This.
What is the condition? Being "kept alive" ain't living. There was the case here is the US where the girl (5year old) I think had bleeding and complications with a routine tonsilllectomy. The parents fought tooth and nail to not have this child pulled from life support despite EEG showing nothing. She may still be "alive".
I do NOT understand how they can be denied though if parents are footing the bill for treatment and air transport. If it's their dime?
There does come a time where the law has to step in and the courts. A parent going through this can't possibly be reasoned with. And that is in NO way a negative comment. My wife and I are both nurses with some cash in the bank and lines of credit. We would suceptible to snake oil.
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