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Message
1
Posted on 12/1/20 at 6:18 pm to OWLFAN86
quote:
hey ma'm all of us have some life challenges we did not choose, we just all don't get judged for how we deal with them
if you don't beat your kids, pay your taxes, respect traffic laws when Im sharing the road with you , not a yankees or cowboys or lakers fan and let me live my life by my choices,,, then how you live or dress doesn't bother me
Thank you very much OF86 :)
Posted on 12/1/20 at 6:19 pm to NWarty
quote:I prefer to be called Owlvis or Owlie if you think Im cute
Thank you very much OF86 :)
Posted on 12/1/20 at 6:19 pm to ATrillionaire
Will it date Bruce Jenner?
Posted on 12/1/20 at 6:22 pm to NWarty
quote:
his wasn’t a choice and isn’t some fun little journey. It’s can be painful, peaceful, at times gut wrenching. I am full of guilt and shame for what I am and the what my loved ones must fee; this existence can be brutal. But I’m finally happy and no longer angry at the world. It’s been a long and difficult road of self discovery to get to this spot.
I never said it was fun or peaceful and I’m truly sorry for what you’ve gone through. Please understand that I am not being mean spirited or trying to mock or degrade you. I’m simply interested in your thoughts as a self identified transgendered person.
Out of curiosity did you have abuse or trauma in your childhood? Did you have both married biological parents in your home as a child?
quote:
I’m not sure why we’re discussing age. In my opinion, that’s apples and oranges. So I’m not prepared to discuss that.
Either factual and determinable science is real or it’s not.
quote:
age can be easily determined throughout a number of tests, measurements, etc. Experts haven’t been able to figure out why transgender folks are the way we are
Gender can be easily determined through a series of tests as well. For example: Every cell in your body is either XX or XY no matter what you think. That’s an easily determinable test for gender.
Why can’t you apply the same for age?
You have every right to believe and call yourself whatever you want, I will support you in your own beliefs but where I have a problem is this:
Should the law treat you how you identify?
quote:
Absolutely
So you believe everyone who identities as a woman should be treated legally as a woman? Do you see the problem there? Your truth isn’t true unless a doctor says it is? That’s dangerous.
Men and women are genetically different no matter what you think or what hormone imbalance you have. That is not to say one is better or more important. They are simply different. And are treated differently for a myriad of reasons. To say the law must now treat you as you identify instead of as you genetically and factually are is a problem. Can you agree to that?
This post was edited on 12/1/20 at 6:40 pm
Posted on 12/1/20 at 6:24 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
Not trashing all plant workers. Just ones who pretend to be psychologists.
No need to crawfish, baw. We know what you meant.
Posted on 12/1/20 at 6:28 pm to NWarty
quote:
who says they are trans should be believed without question?
quote:
No, not always. It has been my experience and been confirmed by my therapist that there are many out there who claim to be trans, that aren’t
And see, this is the rub for me. Who gets to be the arbiter? If I say I'm trans or non-binary or cat trapped in a lesbian dog's body, how can someone tell me I'm not? What authority gets to tell me I'm legit or full of shite? Does the local school board get to decide it? What about the lifeguard when I try to identify as female and walk into the girls' changing room?
ETA: You also stated that the law should always recognize someone's stated gender. That is so damn arbitrary, even by trans experts, who freely acknowledge that gender is fluid. So I could change from male to female and back to male twice a week, and the law says I should accommodate these claims, including in prisons, school systems, etc?
This post was edited on 12/1/20 at 6:31 pm
Posted on 12/1/20 at 6:28 pm to efrad
quote:
So... what is the difference between feeling like a feminine male versus feeling like you are really a female? How did you look at girls and know you wanted to physically become one, as opposed to wanting to act the way those girls you see do?
I don't want to presume what it is that makes you feel like a female, but theoretically let's say it's wearing dresses and wanting to appear what mainstream society would call feminine.
Why not just be a male that does those things?
In an age where gender roles are supposed to be thrown out, where women and men are supposed to be equal, where women are supposed to be able to do anything a man can do and vice versa, why does gender seem to mean everything to transgender individuals?
I'd like to think I know a lot about this topic, but I've never seen this question answered, and asking it is seen as antagonistic among the social justice types, and I'm completely serious.
Excellent post and thanks.
To describe what I’ve felt is incredibly difficult to translate. The best way I can describe it is, imagine some of the worst heartache you’ve ever felt (say a lost love), and swap in not being the other sex for the reason of that heartache. Dysphoria for me, felt like a gut punch and heartache several times a month. It wasn’t clothes, or being around other girls, but feeling that my body was completely wrong. That physical longing to be the opposite sex, no just look like or act the part.
Cut to high school and college playing ball and I thought there was no way that I would ever be able to go thru transition. It got worse over time because I thought the coping mechanisms that I had in place, could drown out and get rid of the feelings. For decades, the option to transition wasn’t to be as I was part of the Army pre-DADT. After investing so many years in my career, I had to provide for my family and shove the dysphoria down. This led to a lot of other problems with drinking, anger, etc.
I had a lot of hang ups with traditional gender roles which took a long time working with my therapist to get thru. I’m also binary and completely reject my born sex, and have no desire whatsoever to blend gender lines. That’s not my bag. I found what I liked, I liked. I didn’t have to dress a certain way, or do things because they were girly or masculine (I talked about earlier keeping my hobbies). But I’d like to try different things one day. I’m still finding my style. I can go get groceries without a stitch of makeup. Throw on jeans, a hoodie and my vans, and be comfortable.
Posted on 12/1/20 at 6:33 pm to NWarty
quote:
Excellent post and thanks. To describe what I’ve felt is incredibly difficult to translate. The best way I can describe it is, imagine some of the worst heartache you’ve ever felt (say a lost love), and swap in not being the other sex for the reason of that heartache. Dysphoria for me, felt like a gut punch and heartache several times a month. It wasn’t clothes, or being around other girls, but feeling that my body was completely wrong. That physical longing to be the opposite sex, no just look like or act the part. Cut to high school and college playing ball and I thought there was no way that I would ever be able to go thru transition. It got worse over time because I thought the coping mechanisms that I had in place, could drown out and get rid of the feelings. For decades, the option to transition wasn’t to be as I was part of the Army pre-DADT. After investing so many years in my career, I had to provide for my family and shove the dysphoria down. This led to a lot of other problems with drinking, anger, etc. I had a lot of hang ups with traditional gender roles which took a long time working with my therapist to get thru. I’m also binary and completely reject my born sex, and have no desire whatsoever to blend gender lines. That’s not my bag. I found what I liked, I liked. I didn’t have to dress a certain way, or do things because they were girly or masculine (I talked about earlier keeping my hobbies). But I’d like to try different things one day. I’m still finding my style. I can go get groceries without a stitch of makeup. Throw on jeans, a hoodie and my vans, and be comfortable.
I mean no disrespect by this, because by all accounts you're speaking from a position of openness, but wouldn't you have to acknowledge you're suffering from a mental illness?
Posted on 12/1/20 at 6:34 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
No need to crawfish, baw. We know what you meant.
I said what I said. You ignored the parts that you couldn’t leverage into victimhood.
This post was edited on 12/1/20 at 6:48 pm
Posted on 12/1/20 at 6:36 pm to NWarty
quote:
I had a lot of hang ups with traditional gender roles which took a long time working with my therapist to get thru
What does this mean? What are traditional gender roles and what problems with them did you have?
quote:
I can go get groceries without a stitch of makeup. Throw on jeans, a hoodie and my vans, and be comfortable.
What does this have at all to do with gender?
This post was edited on 12/1/20 at 6:37 pm
Posted on 12/1/20 at 6:41 pm to NWarty
quote:
Mentally ill
Is it your opinion that she’s not?
quote:
Liberalism is a disease / typical Dem voter
Is it not? Is they not?
Posted on 12/1/20 at 6:42 pm to Nguyener
quote:
So you believe everyone who identities as a woman should be treated legally as a woman? Do you see the problem there? Your truth isn’t true unless a doctor says it is? That’s dangerous.
Men and women are genetically different no matter what you think or what hormone imbalance you have. That is not to say one is better or more important. They are simply different. And are treated differently for a myriad of reasons. To say the law must now treat you as you identify instead of as you genetically and factually are is a problem. Can you agree to that?
It’s actually what a therapist, psychologist, doctor, and judge say. As Louisiana requires me to have the entire GCS surgery, notarized by a Washington State court, then sent to a Louisiana court, to even begin the process to change my Louisiana birth certificate.
No, I don’t think we agree with each other on how the law should identify me. If I’m medically transitioning, have seen mental health professionals, and am presenting as the gender I am, then yes, I should be treated as such. There are so many hangups with how varying states do things such as legal protections, documentation, etc. it’s crazy and the continuity amongst states is nil.
No, I wasn’t abused or anything like that. I had a good childhood and loving parents and siblings .
Posted on 12/1/20 at 6:43 pm to OWLFAN86
quote:
I prefer to be called Owlvis or Owlie if you think Im cute
Good to know, OF86.
Posted on 12/1/20 at 6:44 pm to OWLFAN86
quote:
prefer to be called Owlvis or Owlie if you think Im cute
Such a goddamn queerbait
Posted on 12/1/20 at 6:46 pm to GRTiger
quote:
Good to know, OF86.
Posted on 12/1/20 at 6:47 pm to ClientNumber9
quote:
but wouldn't you have to acknowledge you're suffering from a mental illness?
No. I honestly don’t. Am I different? Absolutely, but it’s not an illness in the negative connotation people like to slap on it. I’d certainly say it’s a medical disorder. My experiences with other trans people my age are nearly identical in how we felt when growing up in the 70’s80’s/90’s.
The short version, not in my mind ;) LOL
Posted on 12/1/20 at 6:50 pm to Rouge
quote:one of my favorite OT threads was when somehow a conversation with SanFran Tiger got twisted into which of us he was most interested in.... he said he would love to sit with me on a couch watching Titanic
prefer to be called Owlvis or Owlie if you think Im cute
Such a goddamn queerbait
Posted on 12/1/20 at 6:51 pm to Nguyener
quote:
So you believe everyone who identities as a woman should be treated legally as a woman? Do you see the problem there? Your truth isn’t true unless a doctor says it is? That’s dangerous.
What are we in danger of?
This post was edited on 12/1/20 at 6:52 pm
Posted on 12/1/20 at 6:53 pm to ATrillionaire
I’d still consider it.
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