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Message
re: Derek Chauvin trial - GUILTY ON ALL CHARGES. Update: His sentencing is today
Posted on 4/9/21 at 7:36 pm to LightMerchant
Posted on 4/9/21 at 7:36 pm to LightMerchant
AMS, what if DC was chasing GF on foot and he has an arrhythmia, myocardial infarction, etc., is DC to blame?
0
Posted on 4/9/21 at 7:37 pm to LightMerchant
quote:
Breonna Taylor
already had that trial.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 7:39 pm to LightMerchant
Flawed, yes. But you cannot say GF would have survived the ingestion of drugs. Didn’t a medical examiner say that ingestion of Fentanyl would kill a person in a few minutes?
Posted on 4/9/21 at 7:42 pm to Rebel
quote:
already had that trial.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 7:44 pm to LightMerchant
quote:
The only position I have taken is that Chauvin committed homicide.
you do realize the ME did not say Chauvin committed homicide?
He simply said cause of death of cardio-pulmonary arrest while in police custody.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 7:44 pm to Rebel
quote:
Breonna Taylor
already had that trial.
No. The decision was made not to bring any charges. Same decision that should have been made here.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 7:52 pm to LightMerchant
quote:
The subdual & restraint of Floyd direct cause ( according to the ME ).
that is not accurate at all.
this is the exact cause of death on the death certificate.
quote:
"cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression."
All this means is that his heart and lungs stopped working while being restrained by cops.
He never said Chauvin was responsible for GF's death.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 7:54 pm to SloaneRanger
quote:
No. The decision was made not to bring any charges. Same decision that should have been made here.
yea. you're correct. The Grand Jury just decided to charge the one officer that fired wildly into the neighbors apartment, if I remember correctly.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 7:55 pm to Rebel
quote:
You do realize the ME did not say Chauvin committed homicide
“ Hennepin Co. Medical Examiner Dr. Andrew Baker, who conducted the initial autopsy of George Floyd, is asked if he would still call his manner of death a homicide.
Baker: “Yes, I would still classify it as a homicide today.”
LINK
I suppose one could be cute and argue he didn’t literally say Chauvin committed homicide. But his finding was that the death was homicide with Chauvin’s physical act upon Floyd’s person a directly contributing factor.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 7:58 pm to LightMerchant
quote:
Baker: “Yes, I would still classify it as a homicide today.”
and then Baker was careful to explain that his meaning was "homicide" by medical definition.
it was not the legal definition for homicide.
Baker at no point said the police officers were responsible for his death.
ETA - since Floyd was in police custody when he died, it is classified medically as a "homicide".
This post was edited on 4/9/21 at 8:01 pm
Posted on 4/9/21 at 8:00 pm to SloaneRanger
quote:
No. The decision was made not to bring any charges. ( in Taylor case )
Trial date is August 31, 2021
LINK
“ A former officer was charged with “wanton endangerment” for endangering Ms. Taylor’s neighbors with gunshots when she was killed by police officers in her Louisville apartment.”
Posted on 4/9/21 at 8:02 pm to LightMerchant
quote:
Baker concluded that Floyd's death was a homicide — which as a forensic pathologist he explained means that someone else was involved in the death, not necessarily that it was criminal.
Blackwell asked how it was the subdual, restraint and neck compression caused Floyd's death.
Baker explained that Floyd had severe underlying heart disease. Floyd also had hypertensive heart disease, Baker said, "which means that his heart weighed more than it should."
"So he has a heart that already needs more oxygen than a normal heart, by virtue of its size. And it's limited in its ability to step up to provide more oxygen when there's demand, because of the narrowing of his coronary arteries," Baker said.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 8:06 pm to Rebel
NPR
read his actual testimony. i realize the media and others are twisting themselves into knots thinking the ME was a big win for the state proving Chauvin committed "homicide". But that isn't what happened at all.
quote:
"Now in the context of an altercation with other people that involves things like physical restraint, that involves things like being held to the ground, that involves things like the pain you would incur from having your cheek up against the asphalt, an abrasion on your shoulder – those events are going to cause stress hormones to pour out into your body, specifically things like adrenaline," Baker continued. "And what that adrenaline is going to do is it's going to ask your heart to beat faster. It's going to ask your body for more oxygen so that you can get through that altercation."
quote:
"In my opinion, the law enforcement subdual, restraint and the neck compression was just more than Mr. Floyd could take, by virtue of those heart conditions," Baker concluded.
There were fentanyl and methamphetamine in Floyd's toxicology report, Blackwell noted, and inquired why Baker had not listed those as the "top line" causes of death in his report.
"The top line of the cause of death is really what you think is the most important thing that you think precipitated the death. Other things that you think played a role in the death but were not direct causes" appear in the "other significant conditions" part of the death certificate, Baker explained.
"Mr. Floyd's use of fentanyl did not cause the subdual or neck restraint, his heart disease did not cause the subdual or the neck restraint," Baker said. They were items that may have contributed to his death but were not the direct cause, he said.
During cross-examination, defense attorney Eric Nelson asked Baker whether Floyd's heart disease, history of hypertension and the drugs in his system played a role in his death.
"In my opinion, yes," Baker replied.
Nelson asked Baker about the effects of methamphetamine in the circumstances of this case: A person with an enlarged heart and a narrowing of the arteries, how does the introduction of methamphetamine affect that person?
Posted on 4/9/21 at 8:14 pm to Rebel
Well, I said that I take the position Chauvin committed homicide, not that the ME did.
But I think he did.
He ruled it homicide which means some individual or individuals caused the death, right?
If not the police, who?
Floyd cannot commit homicide upon himself.
I think when Baker says it is homicide resulting from the subdual and restraint ( by Chauvin ) directly contributing to the death he is saying Chauvin committed homicide. He just doesn’t phrase it as such because he is staying in his ME lane.
You are arguing that the ME said Floyd was killed by a person but the ME didn’t name the person so the ME never said it was Chauvin specifically, even though he said the knee ( of Chauvin ) on Floyd was a direct contributor.
Clearly he is saying the physical act by Chauvin resulted in death and it was homicide.
But I think he did.
He ruled it homicide which means some individual or individuals caused the death, right?
If not the police, who?
Floyd cannot commit homicide upon himself.
I think when Baker says it is homicide resulting from the subdual and restraint ( by Chauvin ) directly contributing to the death he is saying Chauvin committed homicide. He just doesn’t phrase it as such because he is staying in his ME lane.
You are arguing that the ME said Floyd was killed by a person but the ME didn’t name the person so the ME never said it was Chauvin specifically, even though he said the knee ( of Chauvin ) on Floyd was a direct contributor.
Clearly he is saying the physical act by Chauvin resulted in death and it was homicide.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 8:15 pm to LightMerchant
quote:Wrong.
Floyd cannot commit homicide upon himself.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 8:22 pm to LightMerchant
quote:
He ruled it homicide which means some individual or individuals caused the death, right?
no. not "caused". he was very clear about that. like I keep telling you, it is the medical definition of homicide. not the legal definition that you are stuck on.
I'll quote his the first part of his testimony again. But I strongly suggest go back and read or watch his actual testimony. The words have meaning.
quote:
Baker concluded that Floyd's death was a homicide — which as a forensic pathologist he explained means that someone else was involved in the death, not necessarily that it was criminal.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 8:24 pm to LightMerchant
The saddest part about all of this is in a vacuum of this trial, I don’t see how the prosecution has proven guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Yet I have a sneaking feeling DC will be found guilty of the most significant charges that have been brought.
We should be terrified.
We should be terrified.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 8:25 pm to LightMerchant
quote:
Clearly he is saying the physical act by Chauvin resulted in death and it was homicide.
that and everything you posted is incorrect.
you are drawing the wrong conclusion based on what you think you heard, or read, or whatever.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 8:27 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
Compressing the area below the hyoid bone is not possible. It’s thick cartilage tissue, if you compress it the hyoid bone would break. In fact the hyoid bone would be more likely to break with lateral compression.
quote:
So explain to me exactly what part of the hypo pharynx collapsed without damaging any of those bones
quote:
The “compression of the hypopharynx” was all the rage yesterday. Wonder why we didn’t hear anything about that today?
Because it was a bogus theory.
Above are 3 quotes from you saying the area was impossible to compress the hypopharynx, esp without breaking the hyoid.
quote:
They are describing the decrease in the area that leads to the esophagus (which is the purpose of the cricoid pressure) not the airway.
It went over your head that I used a CP study to prove the fact the airway is compressed with only the small amount of pressure used for cricoid pressure which you said would "not be possible".
quote:
Smith et al. reported a decrease of 4 mm, which is a 23% decrease (4 mm/17.1 mm) in the AP diameter of the airway with CP, whereas we measured only a 6% decrease (about 1.0/16.8 mm), which is in keeping with application of pressure over a relatively rigid cartilaginous ring such as the cricoid.
one study measured 23% airway diameter reduction, this study measured 6%. Both prove the airway is compressible with the minimal force involved with cricoid pressure. both prove the airway of the hypopharynx is compressible without breaking the hyoid.
and I believe you should be smart enough to figure out implications on airflow in an airway with reduced diameter.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 8:29 pm to AMS
quote:
AMS
seriously. take your L and move on.
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