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Posted on 4/9/21 at 5:53 pm to arseinclarse
This is what the ME lists as the cause of death.
what this means is GF's heart and lungs stopped working while under police restraint.
notice the ME at no time said Chauvin or any of the officers were responsible for his death.
There was no "asphyxia". He was not "strangled". Just that his heart and lungs stopped working while in police custody. -- hence "medical homicide".
Things that contributed to his death. Heart and coronary disease, lethal amounts of fentanyl, and high blood pressure.
The state still has a few witnesses to call, but unless there is some type of hail mary, the case is over.
No reasonable person could come to the conclusion that Derek Chauvin killed George Floyd based on the testimony presented so far at this trial.
quote:
"cardiopulmonary arrest, complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression,"
what this means is GF's heart and lungs stopped working while under police restraint.
notice the ME at no time said Chauvin or any of the officers were responsible for his death.
There was no "asphyxia". He was not "strangled". Just that his heart and lungs stopped working while in police custody. -- hence "medical homicide".
Things that contributed to his death. Heart and coronary disease, lethal amounts of fentanyl, and high blood pressure.
The state still has a few witnesses to call, but unless there is some type of hail mary, the case is over.
No reasonable person could come to the conclusion that Derek Chauvin killed George Floyd based on the testimony presented so far at this trial.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 5:55 pm to RB10
quote:
AMS is complimenting and upvoting himself with an alter
Same posting style.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 5:55 pm to Rebel
Hope the thugs burn it down and it spreads.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 5:57 pm to ApexTiger
quote:
Police can't be responsible for people being very unhealthy, on drugs, breaking the law, then resisting I mean, dang...
I hear ya, but this isn’t setting precedent. It isn’t new.
If I understand correctly it is as “simple” and “fair” as this:
If your action in arresting causes death you COULD be criminally liable and you COULD be convicted for it and you COULD serve prison time.
You are gonna be arresting old people and skinny little teenage girls and fat-azzes with heart conditions and dope-head counterfeiters with clogged arteries and one foot in the grace already. DO NOT let them die in your custody. Good luck.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 5:57 pm to ApexTiger
quote:
Dr. Baker was the original and by far the most impressive witness..
Eh, the doctor actually said he has seen lower levels of Fentanyl in OD cases 3 was the number he remembered, suggested it might be even lower.
he also said Floyd had severe heart disease... and when you see meth in the blood, that's "bad news" for a person who already has severe heart disease.
the experience of being high before police arrival, being down, being up on meth, then being arrested with severe heart disease, he didn't have much left in the tank AMS.
how else do you explain "I can't breathe" 15 times,
15 times with no police touching this man in the back seat.
he was dealing with his heart disease, the drugs, the anxiety of being arrested
he heightened his anxiety by resisting ...
all of it pieced together, you could say "homicide"...medically speaking
technically, the police were part of him tapping out, but the police were there doing their job which was to take Floyd into custody. Floyd was "trying to win" "I ain't like that" he argued and argued.
as I have maintained for months, Floyd was tapping out when he said he couldn't breathe in the back seat
he wasn't faking it to get out of the car, he was telling the world, his heart was tapping out...he was desperate to lay down...the police complied..
The optics of the knee and recording make it look like the officer's knee took Floyd out but we now know that isn't the case...
Dr. Baker said as much...
no bruising, no evidence of excessive force...
all the other evidence points to heart failure, drug use, and anxiety...
police are being blamed for his death, but we must remember they were last in line of the issues at hand out of their control.
Could Chauvin have let up sooner? Sure
For the family, GF death looks like the police did this, they want that to be the truth...
to the rest of us the addiction led to job loss, then to using counterfeit money, and the rest is history
it all needs to be over
I don't know why this post went largely unnoticed, but it's spot on and perfectly describes the situation and state of the trial.
I also don't know why y'all continue to respond to AMS. She has proven to be EXTREMELY biased, even going back to May of 2020 (almost a year ago) where she obsessively posted for pages and pages about Chauvin's guilt in her eyes. She went as far as to say that she agrees with the rioters and supports them due to Chauvin's guilt.
Tbis type of person cannot be swayed, give it up. This thread is for following the most important trial since OJ, not arguing with an overly emotional and illogical poster that CLEARLY continues to move the goalposts so far they're not even in the same time zone they started within.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 5:58 pm to AMS
quote:
I did argue that anterior or lateral pressure could compress a hypopharynx without any fracture.
not that your opinion is really at play here, but "COULD" doesn't meet the threshold for murder.
what makes you think Chauvin's guilt has been established based on any of the testimony up to this point in the trial?
Posted on 4/9/21 at 6:02 pm to KemoSabe65
quote:
Hope the thugs burn it down and it spreads.
same
Posted on 4/9/21 at 6:04 pm to SOSFAN
quote:
AMS is complimenting and upvoting himself with an alter
Same posting style.
Bingo.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 6:05 pm to Rebel
quote:
No reasonable person could come to the conclusion that Derek Chauvin killed George Floyd based on the testimony presented so far at this trial.
Once again, you think the state has to prove Chauvin KILLED him. That’s not what the 2nd degree manslaughter is here. The prosecution has not convinced me of this, but I can see how a reasonable person would find him guilty of that charge. Still have the defense team and closing arguments, but you are fooling yourself if you don’t think an unbiased, reasonable person could put together the manslaughter charge as proved beyond a reasonable doubt
Posted on 4/9/21 at 6:09 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
The “compression of the hypopharynx” was all the rage yesterday. Wonder why we didn’t hear anything about that today?
Because it was a bogus theory.
except the hypopharynx is compressible with as little force as used with cricoid pressure.
LINK
quote:
Schmalfuss et al.10 reported the average AP diameter of the postcricoid hypopharynx, as imaged on MRI at the level of the inferior cricoid ring, as 7.2 ± 2.0 mm. This is similar to our measurement of the AP distance of the postcricoid hypopharynx in the neutral position without CP, as 7.3 ± 1.9 mm. With CP, we measured this AP distance as 4.7 ± 1.4 mm, resulting in compression of the hypopharynx by 2.6 ± 1.2 mm (35%).
- In all cases of lateral movement, still there was very visible compression of the postcricoid hypopharynx
- There is an approximate 35% “squeeze” of the postcricoid hypopharynx with the application of CP;
The magnetic resonance images show that compression of the postcricoid hypopharynx because the cricoid cartilage moves as the “CP unit” with the postcricoid hypopharynx;
none of the people in this study sustained hyoid bone fractures.
I bet you understand the implications for airflow if the hypopharynx is easily compressible by 35%
Posted on 4/9/21 at 6:10 pm to RazorBroncs
okay, write “AMS” off then.
Why is the ME saying cause of death was homicide, after he acknowledged that Floyd’s poor health was a direct contributor?
The ME seems like a by the book, no nonsense guy.
Why is the ME saying cause of death was homicide, after he acknowledged that Floyd’s poor health was a direct contributor?
The ME seems like a by the book, no nonsense guy.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 6:15 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
AMS is complimenting and upvoting himself with an alter Same posting style.
I am a him but someone said AMS is a her.
There are two users who agree on several things and have a similar language usage / posting style. Not incredible. No conspiracy.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 6:15 pm to LightMerchant
quote:
Why is the ME saying cause of death was homicide, after he acknowledged that Floyd’s poor health was a direct contributor?
ME is saying that Chauvins actions had a contributing factor in GFs death and in his professional opinion, GF would not have died at that moment if not for the direct actions Chauvin was taking
If Lincoln was in the middle of a heart attack when Wilkes Booth shot him, cause of death wouldve been homicide by gunshot...not the heart attack. Obviously that’s a bigger hypothetical than what’s being thrown around by the defense, but you should get the point.
This post was edited on 4/9/21 at 6:19 pm
Posted on 4/9/21 at 6:16 pm to Rebel
quote:
not that your opinion is really at play here, but "COULD" doesn't meet the threshold for murder. what makes you think Chauvin's guilt has been established based on any of the testimony up to this point in the trial?
well i was stating that the hypopharynx could have been compressed and DC's knee was in an area which would cause compression of the airway (this is not the same as saying the airway is entirely blocked). that would be danger introduced by DC especially if someone was already struggling to breath. the fact that DC caused the death (per medical evidence - homicide) does support charges related to unintentional homicide.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 6:17 pm to arseinclarse
quote:
"the unexcluded cerotic artery would continue to allow blood flow to the brain"
He said that but at the very end he told the prosecution that he thinks the police caused the death. WTF???
That's like saying that water had absolutely nothing to do with a swimmer's death. Then when the attorney asks him what he think caused the death he says "he drowned".
Posted on 4/9/21 at 6:18 pm to IT_Dawg
quote:
ME is saying that Chauvins actions resulted in GFs death and in his professional opinion, GF would not have died at that moment if not for the direct actions Chauvin was taking
adjusted slightly to better fit with the medical homicide definition. the other factors contributed to, DC's actions resulted in the death
Posted on 4/9/21 at 6:20 pm to IT_Dawg
quote:
ME is saying that Chauvins actions had a contributing factor in GFs death and in his professional opinion, GF would not have died at that moment if not for the direct actions Chauvin was taking
Yes. I was asking the other poster why they think the ME ruled as such.
Maybe it will help people if they think of it this way:
Chauvin’s act caused Floyd’s poor health condition to kill him.
We can debate what Chauvin could have done differently, his intent, his level of neglect...
...but his act caused Floyd’s death.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 6:20 pm to LightMerchant
quote:
I am a him but someone said AMS is a her.
low IQ posters like to pretend it would be somehow disparaging if I were a female. its a middle school mentality they cant help revert to when faced with facts that challenge their feelings.
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