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re: Darwin’s Doubt: the mathematical problem of evolution and DNA
Posted on 12/30/25 at 8:29 pm to NawlinsTiger9
Posted on 12/30/25 at 8:29 pm to NawlinsTiger9
I don’t think we can trust most things.
But I am particularly distrustful of parts of current science, due to the examples listed earlier.
But I am particularly distrustful of parts of current science, due to the examples listed earlier.
This post was edited on 12/30/25 at 8:53 pm
Posted on 12/30/25 at 8:37 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
But if they really do worship science, then they should adhere to the teachings of scientific method. And if thy do that, the only logical explanation is that the theory of evolution as we know it today simply cannot explain macroevolution.
No. That is just the thesis of the video. It does not make the video scientifically valid. It is just a... hypothesis. It would be against the scientific method to take these claims and state "the theory of evolution as we know it today simply cannot explain macroevolution," as you just did.
Posted on 12/30/25 at 8:44 pm to Powerman
quote:
The problem is to believe that things don't evolve you would have to believe that there were vastly many more species at some point in time and we're just constantly shrinking from a starting point number somewhere.
That isn't necessarily the case. You can hold the view that a single ancestral 'kind', like the original feline, possessed far more genetic diversity than any cat alive today. As that one group branched out and specialized into lions, tigers, and cheetahs, they 'devolved' in terms of total genetic potential, but multiplied in terms of the number of species. It’s not that the number of animals is shrinking from a starting point; it’s that the original, rich genetic code is being sorted into many different, specialized boxes.
Another possibility is that change doesn't happen at a constant, slow crawl. Instead, it happens in 'spurts.' You could have long periods of history where animals just experience minor variations, nothing truly new, and then a sudden unknown factor causes a rapid explosion of new species in a very short amount of time.
Posted on 12/30/25 at 8:54 pm to Pepe Lepew
quote:
Seems there are a few problems with accepted science
Science is never "settled".
Posted on 12/30/25 at 8:56 pm to weagle1999
quote:
But I am particularly distrustful of parts of current science, due to the examples listed earlier.
So you began questioning evolution in 2020/2021?
Posted on 12/30/25 at 8:59 pm to TigerFanatic99
Tell that to people who believe in climate change*
* Formerly called ‘global warming’ but that wasn’t elastic enough to cover all possible scenarios its proponents wanted to include so the name was changed to avoid scrutiny
* Formerly called ‘global warming’ but that wasn’t elastic enough to cover all possible scenarios its proponents wanted to include so the name was changed to avoid scrutiny
Posted on 12/30/25 at 9:01 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
So you began questioning evolution in 2020/2021?
In my mind I question all theories, and that was happening before 2020.
Am I the only one here skeptical of what we are told after observing the massive propaganda push (listed as ‘science’) during covid?
This post was edited on 12/30/25 at 9:05 pm
Posted on 12/30/25 at 9:06 pm to cssamerican
quote:
That isn't necessarily the case. You can hold the view that a single ancestral 'kind', like the original feline, possessed far more genetic diversity than any cat alive today. As that one group branched out and specialized into lions, tigers, and cheetahs, they 'devolved' in terms of total genetic potential, but multiplied in terms of the number of species. It’s not that the number of animals is shrinking from a starting point; it’s that the original, rich genetic code is being sorted into many different, specialized boxes.
But at the species level of taxonomy most species that have ever existed have already gone extinct. So at the species level it is estimated that 99.9% of all species to ever exist are extinct. So at that level we're constantly shrinking and never adding if evolution is not possible.
Posted on 12/30/25 at 9:08 pm to weagle1999
quote:
Am I the only one here skeptical of what we are told after observing the massive propaganda push (listed as ‘science’) during covid?
This is like turning gay because your high school girlfriend danced with another fella
Throwing out the baby with the bath water, only in this case the baby is your brain
Posted on 12/30/25 at 9:10 pm to Darth_Vader
It’s settled science you bigot.
Posted on 12/30/25 at 9:10 pm to TigerFanatic99
quote:
Science is never "settled".
Exactly. It’s “science” until the next discovery.
Posted on 12/30/25 at 9:15 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
so then what does?
We do not know yet. Evolution is simplistic.
How many steps from primordial ooze to humans? and they have to happen in the correct order
Posted on 12/30/25 at 9:16 pm to NawlinsTiger9
I didn’t tell the scientific community to act like a bunch of lemmings during the covid hysteria. Nor did I tell them to almost in lockstep predict that polar bears were going extinct and our coastal cities would be underwater right now.
Anyway, I said my piece on this I think. Hope you have a good New Year
Anyway, I said my piece on this I think. Hope you have a good New Year
Posted on 12/30/25 at 9:23 pm to weagle1999
These are cute but really don't pertain to what we know about how mutation works.
Posted on 12/30/25 at 9:51 pm to weagle1999
quote:
In my mind I question all theories
What are your questions on the theory of general relativity?
Posted on 12/30/25 at 9:56 pm to Jimbeaux
quote:
This article, like almost all I’ve seen, simply attack a straw man of Meyer’s arguments. The few points that aren’t straw man attacks are poorly reasoned and don’t take the argument seriously.
They evolutionists are projecting their belief system, yes belief system, into the debate more than those who question the current theories.
The "strawman" claim is both ironic and hilarious because Meyer's thesis is almost entirely built on a straw foundation.
His core arguments misrepresents evolution as a purely random hunt through all possible DNA or protein sequences, then deems it mathematically impossible. But evolution isn't like that. iIt's cumulative and builds on existing sequences. New traits emerge via gene duplication, tweaks, recombination, regulatory shifts, and repurposing old parts. Treating it as blind randomness simplifies the math and ignores the actual biology.
And the strawmanning continues: He blends "random mutation" with "non-random selection" into one process, pretends variation has no origin, and calls evolution "chance alone" which no one argues. Most novelty comes from remixing existing genes, not starting from zero.
If anyone's using strawmen, it's not his critics.
quote:
This is actually getting to a significant point of the debate, but the article doesn’t nearly approach the topic with the scientific skepticism that is due. The fact of the matter is that it ignores the very salient points made by Meyers and others. The possibility of very basic building blocks of proteins being randomly generated is a far far cry from even basic coded DNA sequences.
This is the classic creationist goalpost shift. Abiogenesis (origin of life) isn't part of evolutionary theory, which strictly addresses how life diversifies once self-replicators exist. Lacking an abiogenesis model doesn't undermine evolution. It's a whole separate fricking field. Creationists conflate them to attack evolution dishonestly, but you can debate abiogenesis without challenging evidence for common descent or selection. Mixing them just confuses arguments which is why hucksters like Meyer do it.
quote:
Um, what? What are these “non-random” changes? What creates the significant variations between which natural selection is making the selection? Kinda skips right over that point!
This confuses steps in the process. Variation isn't "non-random" in purpose, but it stems from clear mechanisms: replication errors, recombination, duplications, transposons, and regulatory changes. No design needed.
Selection is the non-random part: It favors variants that reproduce better under environmental pressures. "Non-random change" means this filtering, not mutations with intent. Nothing's skipped. Variation comes from known biology, selection directs what sticks. Calling this a gap is either a misunderstanding or intentional misrepresentation, not a critique.
Posted on 12/30/25 at 10:01 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:
The "strawman" claim is both ironic and hilarious because Meyer's thesis is almost entirely built on a straw foundation.
His core arguments misrepresents evolution as a purely random hunt through all possible DNA or protein sequences, then deems it mathematically impossible. But evolution isn't like that. iIt's cumulative and builds on existing sequences. New traits emerge via gene duplication, tweaks, recombination, regulatory shifts, and repurposing old parts. Treating it as blind randomness simplifies the math and ignores the actual biology.
And the strawmanning continues: He blends "random mutation" with "non-random selection" into one process, pretends variation has no origin, and calls evolution "chance alone" which no one argues. Most novelty comes from remixing existing genes, not starting from zero.
If anyone's using strawmen, it's not his critics.
quote:
This is actually getting to a significant point of the debate, but the article doesn’t nearly approach the topic with the scientific skepticism that is due. The fact of the matter is that it ignores the very salient points made by Meyers and others. The possibility of very basic building blocks of proteins being randomly generated is a far far cry from even basic coded DNA sequences.
This is the classic creationist goalpost shift. Abiogenesis (origin of life) isn't part of evolutionary theory, which strictly addresses how life diversifies once self-replicators exist. Lacking an abiogenesis model doesn't undermine evolution. It's a whole separate fricking field. Creationists conflate them to attack evolution dishonestly, but you can debate abiogenesis without challenging evidence for common descent or selection. Mixing them just confuses arguments which is why hucksters like Meyer do it.
quote:
Um, what? What are these “non-random” changes? What creates the significant variations between which natural selection is making the selection? Kinda skips right over that point!
This confuses steps in the process. Variation isn't "non-random" in purpose, but it stems from clear mechanisms: replication errors, recombination, duplications, transposons, and regulatory changes. No design needed.
Selection is the non-random part: It favors variants that reproduce better under environmental pressures. "Non-random change" means this filtering, not mutations with intent. Nothing's skipped. Variation comes from known biology, selection directs what sticks. Calling this a gap is either a misunderstanding or intentional misrepresentation, not a critique.
But what about Fauci lying to us about masks? What about THAT?
Posted on 12/30/25 at 10:18 pm to Darth_Vader
I think most internet personalities, especially ones with a huge following on youtube are usually pushing an agenda or being paid to allow someone to go on and push their bullshite so I am less likely to take what any of these people say too serious.
Posted on 12/30/25 at 10:26 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
But what about Fauci lying to us about masks? What about THAT?
I used to think that COVID fricked up the minds of formerly reasonable people. But after a couple of years to reflect, I'm pretty sure it simply gave folks a convenient hook to hang their pre-existing idiotic beliefs on.
Saying "I don't trust science cuz COVID" is like not trusting the entire concept of nutrition because you're pretty sure Taco Bell gave you the shits last week.
Posted on 12/30/25 at 10:51 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:
Saying "I don't trust science cuz COVID" is like not trusting the entire concept of nutrition because you're pretty sure Taco Bell gave you the shits last week.
I think some people go overboard, but COVID made it clear that science isn’t immune to politics. A lot of people were already questioning the man-made climate change narrative, and the political correctness around COVID just confirmed their suspicions. Longer held beliefs like evolution is a bit different.
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