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Started By
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re: Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) ***W.H.O. DECLARES A GLOBAL PANDEMIC***
Posted on 4/28/20 at 8:10 pm to ell_13
Posted on 4/28/20 at 8:10 pm to ell_13
Even the NY Times is coming around to the view that Sweden may be doing it right. Was an article today and an editorial by Friedman that I think appears tomorrow. Maybe one of you wizards can link them. We have been massively failed by our "experts," our media and politicians in both parties.
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Posted on 4/28/20 at 8:30 pm to ell_13
quote:
Are you serious? That was the whole narrative from the start of the shutdown. Stay home. Save lives. The better you do this, the quicker we get back to normal. That was a lie of course. But a narrative all the same.
I’m not talking about the purpose. I’m talking about the propaganda. If the purpose is to protect the healthcare system, mission accomplished. So let’s get back to work. How is the system any more protected in two weeks?
It was all stupid, that's what it was. The goal, from the very beginning, should have been to eradicate the virus. That's what Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and now New Zealand have done. Now, everyone in those countries can basically lead normal lives without any fear of COVID-19.
If there had been a real attempt at that here, if we had been able to test in February, then none of this nightmare would have happened.
Personally, I think it should be the goal now. I think that we can open our economy up a lot and still keep the R value under 1. I saw a study recently that indicated that Italy got its R value down to 0.4 by early April with their lockdown. Ours has been looser -- I'd guess that we've probably only gotten it down to 0.6 - 0.7 or so. But we'll get help from warmer weather and no flu around to complicate things, and if we keep the R value at 0.9 or less, we'll essentially get rid of the virus this summer. Then, with enough testing and screening (the latest act from Congress allocates $25 billion for testing), we can keep it from coming back in any meaningful way in the fall. And if an area starts to have a problem, they can shut down for just a week and get back on track. A one-week shutdown doesn't cost millions of jobs, even if we have to do it a couple of times this winter. And, by the fall, we likely have successful treatments for COVID-19, so that it's not a big health threat anyway.
I think that a lot of public health experts now understand that. But, you're right: the original goal was simply to "flatten the curve" to avoid overwhelming the healthcare system. It's obvious that the new goal is to suppress the virus and keep it contained or essentially eliminate it this summer so that we go into the fall with basically no virus. As I said, I personally think that this should be the goal. But no one, from the President on down, has said that.
The goalposts were moved, people have the right to an explanation, and they aren't getting it.
This post was edited on 4/28/20 at 8:31 pm
Posted on 4/28/20 at 8:40 pm to GOP_Tiger
We aren’t going to eliminate it this summer. You can forget that option.
Posted on 4/28/20 at 8:48 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
The goal, from the very beginning, should have been to eradicate the virus. That's what Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and now New Zealand have done.
This was never a possibility for the US. And it won't be for those island nations you mention unless they are going to isolate themselves from all international travel. That battle could have only been won in the early days in Wuhan. You can thank the Chinese
Posted on 4/28/20 at 8:59 pm to SloaneRanger
quote:
That battle could have only been won in the early days in Wuhan. You can thank the Chinese
Oh for sure. F them for allowing this to happen.
quote:
it won't be for those island nations you mention unless they are going to isolate themselves from all international travel
They will keep 14-day quarantines in place. Watch.
quote:
This was never a possibility for the US
Of course it was. It was absolutely a possibility in early March when Washington state could have shut down for a week so that authorities could regain control of the virus.
When the outbreak occurred in Italy, all that President Trump needed to do was apply the same standard that he'd already set for China and stop flights from Italy.
The will to prevent this didn't exist, because America lacked the necessary leadership. Even if we'd had tests ready, the way South Korea did, we could have stopped outbreaks in the US as they occurred. We didn't, because we had almost no federal response, and the CDC let us down by creating a test that didn't work and cost us critical time.
It's still a possibility now, and it would cost a lot less than the $3 trillion we've already spent as the result of failure.
Posted on 4/28/20 at 9:06 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:Did you forget that it was widespread way earlier than that? Mardi Gras was end of Feb. it was the testing that was lagging at that time. Hell, there’s a good chance it was here in December.
It was absolutely a possibility in early March when Washington state could have shut down for a week so that authorities could regain control of the virus.
Posted on 4/28/20 at 9:20 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
The goal, from the very beginning, should have been to eradicate the virus
Is that fantasy? How is that even possible? So you weld every American indoors for 3 weeks. Then I guess you never allow an international flight to come here. I've never understood people who said this.
Posted on 4/28/20 at 9:28 pm to Wolverine2Tiger94
I don’t think we can gain herd immunity INSIDE. Dear Lord, this is crazy.
Posted on 4/28/20 at 9:30 pm to Saintsisit
quote:
So you weld every American indoors for 3 weeks
No, the shutdowns would have ever happened if we had taken the virus seriously from the start. No one would have ever been locked indoors.
quote:
Then I guess you never allow an international flight to come here.
You'd have to quarantine people for 14 days, which is what lots of other countries have done. But we would have kept the virus out.
The fantasy was that we could just allow the virus to spread everywhere in the US, and it wouldn't cause problems here because we didn't have the same problems as Italy. Seriously, if you want to read fantasy, go back earlier in this thread and read about how awesome our healthcare system is and how we don't have Italy's pollution or number of smokers, etc. -- so COVID-19 isn't going to cause any real problem here.
Posted on 4/28/20 at 9:39 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
No, the shutdowns would have ever happened if we had taken the virus seriously from the start. No one would have ever been locked indoors.
Haha, its was already here especially with the asymptomatic cases.
quote:
But we would have kept the virus out.
You still didn't answer. So say in a dream world there are zero cases in America. Will no one from another country ever be allowed back. How do you keep a virus from entering a country. I'd love to hear.
Posted on 4/28/20 at 10:00 pm to Saintsisit
quote:
You still didn't answer. So say in a dream world there are zero cases in America. Will no one from another country ever be allowed back. How do you keep a virus from entering a country. I'd love to hear.
You do what lots of other countries are doing right now -- you quarantine everyone for 14 days upon arrival.
But we could at least have done temperature screenings at airports, and we didn't even do that. We did zero to prevent the invasion of the virus, except for the limited travel ban from China (which was a good thing and did delay the virus from spreading here for about two weeks).
Posted on 4/28/20 at 10:13 pm to GOP_Tiger
Wow.. Talk about bad optics 
quote:
Mayor Bill de Blasio @NYCMayor
· 1h My message to the Jewish community, and all communities, is this simple: the time for warnings has passed. I have instructed the NYPD to proceed immediately to summons or even arrest those who gather in large groups. This is about stopping this disease and saving lives. Period.
Posted on 4/28/20 at 10:17 pm to Salmon
Oh frick all you little bitches. I'm flattening as much asian pussy as I can find. Enjoy your your fists....
Posted on 4/28/20 at 10:19 pm to ell_13
I love the spread. It's what's life is all about.
Posted on 4/28/20 at 10:32 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:What? That is not not feasible, not even slightly.
You do what lots of other countries are doing right now -- you quarantine everyone for 14 days upon arrival
That might work for an island nation, but we share land borders with Canada and a 3rd world country.
14-day quarantining international travelers at airports: How? Where are you going to quarantine these people? Who is going to enforce it?
How long are you willing to do these things? We've been working on coronavirus vaccines for decades. If the main mechanism of death from covid is overreaction of the immune system, which is common, a vaccine would be useless anyway. If my memory serves, that is what halted the OG SARS vaccine attempts in the 2000's.
Posted on 4/29/20 at 7:04 am to Ronaldo Burgundiaz
Apologies for my lack of clarity -- the 14 days is what we'd have had to do earlier. No, we don't need to quarantine people for 14 days now, because we could test them all getting off the plane and quarantine them for three days and then test them again and let people out.
When you say that it isn't feasible, do you realize how unfeasible what we are doing right now is? Quarantine for those arriving on international flights is a small price to pay compared to the craziness we're doing now Back in February, we were unwilling to do the hard things, so now we've had to do crazy things.
When you say that it isn't feasible, do you realize how unfeasible what we are doing right now is? Quarantine for those arriving on international flights is a small price to pay compared to the craziness we're doing now Back in February, we were unwilling to do the hard things, so now we've had to do crazy things.
Posted on 4/29/20 at 7:35 am to GOP_Tiger
I understood what you were saying. When the cruise ship was quarantined in Yokohama and they announced that one of the officials who had been going cabin to cabin would get in a taxi and go home to his family everyday, I thought that was crazy and was disappointed in the Japanese, then we go and fumble left and right and are stuck with the mess we have now. The whole thing was mishandled at all levels from the start. It didn't have to start this way. Do we end up in the same place either way? Who knows.
Posted on 4/29/20 at 7:37 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
we were unwilling to do the hard things, so now we've had to do crazy things.
Unwilling to do smart things.
What happens when your country is run by a petulant charlatan.
And I like Trump for the most part. He has just been completely out of his depth in all this and I guess to be fair, his entire advisory staff.
We've shite the bed in just about every way possible. Even our current lockdown is just kicking the can down the road for when we "open up" again.
It's been a massive failure on all levels.
Posted on 4/29/20 at 8:09 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:the test taking four days then wasn’t it
No, we don't need to quarantine people for 14 days now, because we could test them all getting off the plane and quarantine them for three days and then test them again and let people out.
Posted on 4/29/20 at 8:18 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
because we could test them all getting off the plane and quarantine them for three days and then test them again and let people out.
Do you realize how many international flights arrive here daily? How would that be possible logistically. What about people crossing the border daily? People need to realize the virus isn't going away. Don't touch your face without sanitizer and respect distances for now, that's all that needs to be done.
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