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Started By
Message
re: Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) ***W.H.O. DECLARES A GLOBAL PANDEMIC***
Posted on 4/10/20 at 6:42 am to S1C EM
Posted on 4/10/20 at 6:42 am to S1C EM
Strangely, data I’ve seen shows that hospital admissions for acute cardiac disease and stroke is down anywhere from 20-60%.
Locking people up in their homes with no sports and no a-hole boss is apparently the cure to heart disease
Locking people up in their homes with no sports and no a-hole boss is apparently the cure to heart disease
1
Posted on 4/10/20 at 6:54 am to escatawpabuckeye
No commute and more sleep as well.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 7:00 am to S1C EM
quote:
individuals/families are always advised to have 6 months of funds available for an emergency at any time. Does this same thought not apply to businesses?
But you forget, the majority of Americans who have less than 1k in personal checking or 0 retirement are the same morons who own/run businesses.... do you really think they are any more responsible in business than in personal life?
This post was edited on 4/10/20 at 7:00 am
Posted on 4/10/20 at 7:02 am to Lsut81
More good news... NYC only had 200 new patients admitted yesterday
Posted on 4/10/20 at 7:23 am to Lsut81
quote:
But you forget, the majority of Americans who have less than 1k in personal checking or 0 retirement are the same morons who own/run businesses.... do you really think they are any more responsible in business than in personal life?
Oh, no....I agree with you. I think there are actually a lot of very poorly thought out “businesses” out there who manage their money equally, if not more, poorly. But you’re sort of making my argument for me now. My question is, why do we care so much about these small businesses who haven’t planned appropriately, whereas if they were people........most on this board would tend to chalk their trouble up to being irresponsible and say “screw the poors that didn’t plan.”
Survival of the fittest has its merits both ways.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 7:30 am to S1C EM
quote:There is a difference between “failing because the business failed” and “failing because the government wouldn’t let you function”.
why do we care so much about these small businesses who haven’t planned appropriately
I wouldn’t give a rat’s arse if these businesses failed because their business models sucked.
quote:
whereas if they were people........most on this board would tend to chalk their trouble up to being irresponsible and say “screw the poors that didn’t plan.”
Posted on 4/10/20 at 7:32 am to tiger91
Where wife works you get 8 doses of HC.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 7:54 am to Scruffy
quote:
There is a difference between “failing because the business failed” and “failing because the government wouldn’t let you function”.
Is there? Businesses with no reserves to get them through what is currently ONE month....and may be no more than TWO months....of reduced income? When there are federal programs set up to bail them out? Do you think many of those same businesses would have lasted another 6 months anyway? A great point was made above.....the same idiots that don’t save anything personally own businesses and practice the same fiscal irresponsibility in those. And there are options for keeping these businesses open even without federal aid.....but many of them haven’t thought ahead beyond the brick-and-mortar business model. In the world of Amazon, that seems equally irresponsible.
And while you roll eyes at the comment, can you tell me definitively that I’m wrong? It’s an honest observation about planning and how we tend to view those who don’t.
This post was edited on 4/10/20 at 7:58 am
Posted on 4/10/20 at 8:02 am to S1C EM
Small businesses often have much longer designed ramp periods. They often aren’t profitable for years.
That is just how it works. And their income isn’t just reduced in most cases, it has disappeared. So these small shops that are squeezing expenses on a shoe strong budget while ramping lost all revenue.
That’s simply crippling. And in my experience people who open businesses themselves aren’t the people without personal savings. They’re the people with drive and a plan.
That is just how it works. And their income isn’t just reduced in most cases, it has disappeared. So these small shops that are squeezing expenses on a shoe strong budget while ramping lost all revenue.
That’s simply crippling. And in my experience people who open businesses themselves aren’t the people without personal savings. They’re the people with drive and a plan.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 8:07 am to TheCaterpillar
quote:
Small businesses often have much longer designed ramp periods. They often aren’t profitable for years.
That is just how it works. And their income isn’t just reduced in most cases, it has disappeared. So these small shops that are squeezing expenses on a shoe strong budget while ramping lost all revenue.
That’s simply crippling. And in my experience people who open businesses themselves aren’t the people without personal savings. They’re the people with drive and a plan.
That’s all fair. Good points.
Still, I think we’re totally ignoring the help available to them during this time and we’re making a huge deal out of what has been less than a month, so far, and likely won’t go beyond two in full shutdown mode.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 8:16 am to S1C EM
quote:
But isn’t their murder rate and other crimes down by like 25%? I feel as though that would be more than a wash.
Agreed. Other things are down like car accidents, other viral transmissions, etc. I’d really like to see restrictions lifted as soon as it’s possible to safely do so. However, trying to say that more people will die from the shutdowns (suicides, domestic abuse, etc) than being saved by the shutdowns is just not accurate. Obviously we could argue the cost/benefit of it all.
There is no doubt people staying at home has significantly reduced the spread and reduced the deaths of this. I’d be happy to see things ease open with precautions. I have parents that fit multiple at-risk categories. I’ve been extremely cautious bc I am bringing food and groceries to my parent’s house. But the fact that I can’t get a haircut at this point could be resolved if me and the person cutting my hair were wearing a mask. I’m seeing more people were a mask, even cloth ones, and I’m fine with that. I don’t believe we should be shutdown indefinitely trying to get cases to zero. As long as we aren’t overloading the medical system, we should be stressing to people to be extra cautious. I have no problem going to get groceries or pick up a Togo order. But I’m not getting on an airplane, cruise, etc. I’m also not really interested in sitting in a crowded restaurant at all.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 8:23 am to TheCaterpillar
quote:
Small businesses often have much longer designed ramp periods. They often aren’t profitable for years. That is just how it works. And their income isn’t just reduced in most cases, it has disappeared. So these small shops that are squeezing expenses on a shoe strong budget while ramping lost all revenue. That’s simply crippling. And in my experience people who open businesses themselves aren’t the people without personal savings. They’re the people with drive and a plan
I think this will fall on both the businesses and their creditors, with some key provisions enacted by government, to work out how to proceed - again only possible if this shutdown does not proceed beyond what's needed.
Landlords will have to realize the effective market value of their commercial properties is severely constrained at the moment, and there won't be other tenants chomping at the bit to hop on in. Governements have to realize that this constraint also, in effect, severely reduces the property values of that property - at least temporarily and offer up some help (Pro-rate property tax with the shutdown period removed, so you'd basically say that Commercial land owners with shut down tenants don't owe property tax for March/April).
We have to avoid the following frick-up
Customers can't use business -> Business cash flow drops -> Business can't pay own bills/breaks lease -> Landlord tries to lease out to new business based on last year's financial numbers -> Landlord's cash flow drops -> Landlord saves money cutting maintenance, pissing off the other tenants -> Other tenants move out -> Your home town is left with a 3/4th empty hunk of crap strip mall with 2 pay day loan places, a Mexican grocery store, and a laundromat for years to come.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 8:23 am to S1C EM
Just got back from store... about 75% of people wearing masks now, mainly older people....
Exactly how it should be, they are responsible for themselves. Let’s open this shite back up, it’s time. People are aware and know the risks, it’s on them to mitigate.
Exactly how it should be, they are responsible for themselves. Let’s open this shite back up, it’s time. People are aware and know the risks, it’s on them to mitigate.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 8:25 am to ashy larry
quote:
However, trying to say that more people will die from the shutdowns (suicides, domestic abuse, etc) than being saved by the shutdowns is just not accurate
You, nor I, know that. It is very hard to quantify what was directly or indirectly caused by recessions.
However, residual impact from deep economic downturns or recessions absolutely leads to years and years of ripple effects in the form of suicides, violent crimes, hunger, child abandonment, domestic abuse, fraud, etc.
It’s a terrible thing and I’m glad I’m not the one weighing options right now.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 8:40 am to TheCaterpillar
quote:
However, trying to say that more people will die from the shutdowns (suicides, domestic abuse, etc) than being saved by the shutdowns is just not accurate
The alternative time line where we didn't shut the economy down, and just continued with life and everything continues to go great with the economy does not exist. It died the day China covered up their Wuhan problem.
That alternate timeline (even if the shutdown saved 0 lives), still leads off the news every day with how many people died of the virus, grim photos of overrun NYC hospitals, and which aging celebrity that you hadn't thought about in years died that day from the virus. It still contains stories of how every country in Europe shutdown - except us. No matter which path the feds and state governments took, we're not sitting here on April 10th with a fully buzzing economy.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 8:59 am to BRIllini07
I'm not sure what your point is 
I'm not saying we should've never shut down. We've done the right things up until this point and I think the economy will recover.
But it is time to phase things back online. Shouldn't be hard to do if we do a handful of things:
- Continue to isolate the vulnerable
- Ramp up both C19 and antibody testing to test everyone in the country so we can isolate and trace (and prioritize risk based on herd immunity)
- Continue social distancing for those out and about
- Continue working from home when possible
- Open businesses but have 50% capacity rules
- No large gathering type events like concerts and sports where social distancing is impossible
That should be done regionally based on data and should start probably now, but I'll take May 1st.
If we go until the end of June as a country with this shutdown, the damage will be exponentially worse.
I'm not saying we should've never shut down. We've done the right things up until this point and I think the economy will recover.
But it is time to phase things back online. Shouldn't be hard to do if we do a handful of things:
- Continue to isolate the vulnerable
- Ramp up both C19 and antibody testing to test everyone in the country so we can isolate and trace (and prioritize risk based on herd immunity)
- Continue social distancing for those out and about
- Continue working from home when possible
- Open businesses but have 50% capacity rules
- No large gathering type events like concerts and sports where social distancing is impossible
That should be done regionally based on data and should start probably now, but I'll take May 1st.
If we go until the end of June as a country with this shutdown, the damage will be exponentially worse.
This post was edited on 4/10/20 at 9:01 am
Posted on 4/10/20 at 9:14 am to TheCaterpillar
quote:
That should be done regionally based on data and should start probably now, but I'll take May 1st.
If we go until the end of June as a country with this shutdown, the damage will be exponentially worse.
I don’t see any indication this will last past May. Good chance things open back up well before may 15
Posted on 4/10/20 at 9:14 am to TheCaterpillar
quote:
But it is time to phase things back online. Shouldn't be hard to do if we do a handful of things:
- Continue to isolate the vulnerable
- Ramp up both C19 and antibody testing to test everyone in the country so we can isolate and trace (and prioritize risk based on herd immunity)
- Continue social distancing for those out and about
- Continue working from home when possible
- Open businesses but have 50% capacity rules
- No large gathering type events like concerts and sports where social distancing is impossible
That should be done regionally based on data and should start probably now, but I'll take May 1st.
I would agree with you if I thought everyone was as well-informed and intelligent as you and others here. Truth is, we are ALL surrounded by idiots. My wife has another week of quarantine while I handle the house and kids and work by myself because an idiot COVID-positive patient walked into their office with no appointment and blatantly lied about her condition and symptoms during screening. Unfortunately, I wager that at LEAST 80% of the country falls into this slot. You’re asking STUPID people to make INTELLIGENT decisions. I think May 1st should be the goal and it should be a slow, meticulously managed process.
As for regional implementation......I don’t trust our idiot governor who said less than a week ago that he was just made aware of asymptomatic transmission 24-hours prior. Do you trust yours?
This post was edited on 4/10/20 at 9:17 am
Posted on 4/10/20 at 9:14 am to TheCaterpillar
quote:
Continue to isolate the vulnerable
- Ramp up both C19 and antibody testing to test everyone in the country so we can isolate and trace (and prioritize risk based on herd immunity)
- Continue social distancing for those out and about
- Continue working from home when possible
- Open businesses but have 50% capacity rules
- No large gathering type events like concerts and sports where social distancing is impossible
This combined with schools being closed would prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed.
Not opening up would do more harm, than the gain between the above measures and what we are doing now.
This post was edited on 4/10/20 at 9:20 am
Posted on 4/10/20 at 9:16 am to TheCaterpillar
quote:
- Continue to isolate the vulnerable
- Ramp up both C19 and antibody testing to test everyone in the country so we can isolate and trace (and prioritize risk based on herd immunity)
- Continue social distancing for those out and about
- Continue working from home when possible
- Open businesses but have 50% capacity rules
- No large gathering type events like concerts and sports where social distancing is impossible
All reasonable
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