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re: Can we have an honest discussion about the facts of slavery?
Posted on 5/19/17 at 7:33 pm to WaWaWeeWa
Posted on 5/19/17 at 7:33 pm to WaWaWeeWa
The problem is when talking about slavery and racism most people in this country open the history book in 1776
That's not fair. And it's only to serve their agenda and underlying motives
That's not fair. And it's only to serve their agenda and underlying motives
0
Posted on 5/19/17 at 7:33 pm to WaWaWeeWa
you are reaching now...
"Americans" were just a few generations removed from "Europeans" when industrial slavery was the primary agricultural engine of the south. Don't act like after 1776 there was some DNA mutation in the North American population
"Americans" were just a few generations removed from "Europeans" when industrial slavery was the primary agricultural engine of the south. Don't act like after 1776 there was some DNA mutation in the North American population
Posted on 5/19/17 at 7:34 pm to Dead End
quote:
As a liberal, I'm offended by Americans owning slaves hundreds of years ago
I think that's offensive to both sides of the aisle
Point is, it's backwards for some of us to try to retroactively hold entire demographics accountable. Or apologize for the same. It happened. It was awful. Every country in this planet has am awful past when it comes to race relations. Most much worse than ours.
No other country has done as abrupt a 180 on race relations as we have, either.
Each one of us have a responsibility now to make things better on a micro level.
Posted on 5/19/17 at 7:35 pm to WaWaWeeWa
Imagine the headache that would have been avoided if they would have went to china instead.
Posted on 5/19/17 at 7:36 pm to WaWaWeeWa
Don't waste your breath, brother.
Posted on 5/19/17 at 7:38 pm to cgrand
quote:
you are reaching now... "Americans" were just a few generations removed from "Europeans" when industrial slavery was the primary agricultural engine of the south. Don't act like after 1776 there was some DNA mutation in the North American population
I don't follow
Europeans established colonies all over the new world to use slaves to exploit agriculture and other resources. If you were a slave taken from Africa you had a 3% chance of ending up in an area that would now be considered the United States.
So in a society established by Europeans based on slavery for exploitation of resources... How long would you expect people born into this way of life to decide to radically alter it?
I think the fact that it only took one generation (~90 years) pretty impressive
This post was edited on 5/19/17 at 7:39 pm
Posted on 5/19/17 at 7:39 pm to AbuTheMonkey
Lol you dumb.
Posted on 5/19/17 at 7:41 pm to WaWaWeeWa
unless I misunderstood you I read your primary point as being that Europeans were the instrument of North American slavery and that Americans ended it. While technically true, in reality the same people that started it, ended it
Posted on 5/19/17 at 7:41 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
facts
You should no by now that the people responsible for taking down the monuments are not interested in, nor capable of understanding facts.
Posted on 5/19/17 at 7:46 pm to WaWaWeeWa
No we can not
Posted on 5/19/17 at 7:46 pm to cgrand
quote:
unless I misunderstood you I read your primary point as being that Europeans were the instrument of North American slavery and that Americans ended it. While technically true, in reality the same people that started it, ended it
Fine, you can say that if you want. I'm not the one labeling groups and determining responsibility. That's the other sides problem, I'm just trying to prove the absurdity of their argument.
The conclusion is still the same...
Americans, white Americans, white males, whatever group you want to name, is not anymore responsible for slavery in this country then the European founders of this country and all of North America
But you still have people like MontyFranklin who say they don't care "because they don't live in Europe". No, they don't care because it doesn't further their agenda.
Posted on 5/19/17 at 7:47 pm to Dead End
quote:
As a liberal, I'm offended by Americans owning slaves hundreds of years ago... However, I refuse to comment on Africans and Muslims that currently owm slaves today...
Great point! Other people are awful so I'd like to pretend my ancestors made no mistakes. C'mon man, slavery is bad and shouldn't be sanctioned by historical equivalencies. Does that mean slavery in the south is the same as slavery today, no, but its still evil.
Posted on 5/19/17 at 7:55 pm to armytiger16
I also didn't claim that our ancestors didn't make any mistakes
But in my opinion I would place more blame on someone who came to an undisturbed land and established a society based on slavery to enrich themselves MORE THAN someone who was born into that society
And I would give more credit to those who were born into that society and still managed to end it
But in my opinion I would place more blame on someone who came to an undisturbed land and established a society based on slavery to enrich themselves MORE THAN someone who was born into that society
And I would give more credit to those who were born into that society and still managed to end it
Posted on 5/19/17 at 7:58 pm to WaWaWeeWa
And to be clear, the origin of my post came from our great mayor today who invited all of the descendents of slaves to come sit in the front row of his speech
He needs to read a history book because everyone should have walked to the front of the room
He needs to read a history book because everyone should have walked to the front of the room
Posted on 5/19/17 at 8:03 pm to WaWaWeeWa
The fact that slavery was ended in the USA 90 years after it's founding is not some remarkable achievement. Slavery had been ended in Britain decades before, and it's not like Americans just got together and decided to end slavery. A war had to be fought (and you could argue slavery was only then ended as a way to apply diplomatic pressure, not out of some moral obligation). Then, for 100 years after that the freed slaves were legally inferior in many ways to ordinary non black citizens.
So, I'm not an advocate for reparations. Apologies have already happened by and large. However, it's silly to act like black people are crazy to hold a grudge. Look back in history, societies and cultures have held bigger grudges, fought wars, etc. over smaller slights than what happened to blacks in America.
It's amazing how legally and otherwise relegating a group of people to be the lower class for centuries comes back to bite you in the arse as a society. Hope that free labor was worth it for somebody else's rich ancestors
So, I'm not an advocate for reparations. Apologies have already happened by and large. However, it's silly to act like black people are crazy to hold a grudge. Look back in history, societies and cultures have held bigger grudges, fought wars, etc. over smaller slights than what happened to blacks in America.
It's amazing how legally and otherwise relegating a group of people to be the lower class for centuries comes back to bite you in the arse as a society. Hope that free labor was worth it for somebody else's rich ancestors
Posted on 5/19/17 at 8:07 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
As it pertains to the Atlantic slave trade:
- Slavery was taking place in Africa long before Europeans started buying slaves. More slaves were held in Africa than were sent elsewhere.
- The Portuguese, British, French, and Spanish started the atlantic slave trade
- The overwhelming majority of African slaves were captured and sold by other Africans as a result of lost wars and tribal conflicts
- Europeans bought the slaves from the coast and rarely went into the interior of Africa to capture slaves themselves
- About 12 million people were sold as slaves from Africa
- Only ~3% of slaves were brought to what we now consider the United States. The largest percentage of slaves went to Brazil
- Educated religious whites from Britain, Portugal, and America started the movement to end slavery not only in their countries but around the world
- there are more slaves in the world right now than all the slaves that were imported to America from the time she was a colony until slavery was abolished.
Slavery is not a thing of the past.
Posted on 5/19/17 at 8:07 pm to WaWaWeeWa
Who is responsible for me being five foot seven inches and unable to dunk a basketball? I could have been a somebody in the NBA making millions. I am entitled !!
Posted on 5/19/17 at 8:14 pm to WaWaWeeWa
As a black male the only thing I want to add to this discussion is that I wish it would die.
We can try to justify and clean it up as much as we want to but it will always be a stain on American history. With that being said, it is time to move on.
When I say it is time to move on, I mean everyone of all races should move on. We will never have a fair and rational conversation across the board because it is an absolutely polarizing subject.
Hopefully we can all agree that at the end of the day it was bad and just move forward. Don't care about any "residual effects," let's just move forward. I don't want to hear how the slaves didn't have it "that" bad, let's just move forward.
We can try to justify and clean it up as much as we want to but it will always be a stain on American history. With that being said, it is time to move on.
When I say it is time to move on, I mean everyone of all races should move on. We will never have a fair and rational conversation across the board because it is an absolutely polarizing subject.
Hopefully we can all agree that at the end of the day it was bad and just move forward. Don't care about any "residual effects," let's just move forward. I don't want to hear how the slaves didn't have it "that" bad, let's just move forward.
Posted on 5/19/17 at 8:15 pm to Cocotheape
I see your point and it's a good one. But my point is that it's unrealistic to expect a practice that was present since the beginning of society to end all of a sudden because America was founded. We didn't establish this society on slaves, the Europeans did. You are holding the very first Americans to an unfair standard.
You are right, I can't blame black people (from 300 years ago) for holding a grudge
I can blame black people in today's society for blaming all of their current problems on white America for a practice that was started by Europeans and their African ancestors
You are right, I can't blame black people (from 300 years ago) for holding a grudge
I can blame black people in today's society for blaming all of their current problems on white America for a practice that was started by Europeans and their African ancestors
Posted on 5/19/17 at 8:27 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
But you can be proud that Americans, mostly white ironically, ended it forever in less than a generation.
Just think about how "liberal" and progressive those Americans had to be to end slavery.
You're right. The Republicans that ended slavery are American hero's.
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