re: Bill Nye Debates Ken Ham

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What I meant, and did my best to convey, is that if creation took 14 billion years or two nanoseconds, who cares?

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It would be literally impossible for such a thing to happen in so quick a time as you seem to want to argue simply based on the speed of light and other natural laws.

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Sometimes I don't do a great job articulating myself.

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Well, I mostly used your post to bring up a topic that bugs me. You did fine explaining what you meant.

My point is that people claim to know how this all powerful being wants people to behave while at the same time claiming that we are too ignorant to understand his ways; i.e. "God works in mysterious ways". If I say that being a good person should be enough to get into this paradise, I am told that I must also have faith in their god. Later I may ask why god wouldn't make himself known to more than just one clan in the middle east thousands of years ago or why he hasn't spoken to anyone as a burning bush in thousands of years, and I would be told that I can't begin to understand how or why god does things.

I would give you a different answer. He does work in mysterious ways, but I would argue he DOES make himself known daily!

Use your science! Observe the world and the universe with all 5 senses!

Isn't it wondrous?! It was no accident!

But to touch on the other aspect, God already won. It's not reality that he forces himself on us.

I'm sure you'll blow it off, the holy spirit is noticeable and present with those who have faith.

He rewards faith.

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I don't believe the universe and life was created in 6 earth days. The bible says no such thing.

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Uh... I think the Bible did:

The Beginning

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

Yeah, you just did what I claimed in my post. You claim nature is god's work just because it is there. That gives me no further proof that he did any of it. You gave a bunch of vague explanations of how god works and said that I could only understand if I had faith.

So, in order for him to show himself to me, I must have faith. But for me to have faith, I must have more evidence. Again, why did the Old Testament god speak directly so often but doesn't do this now? Why didn't he make himself evident to the Western Hemisphere at all? I assume the answer is that "god works in mysterious ways".

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Creationist will never try to disprove their beliefs if something that does not make sense or contradicting, they will rely the dogma that God said so!!

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To bring this back to that assbag Ken Ham, this is directly from his website:

LINK

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Scripture teaches a recent origin for man and the whole creation.

The days in Genesis do not correspond to geologic ages, but are six [6] consecutive twenty-four [24] hour days of Creation.

The Noachian Flood was a significant geological event and much (but not all) fossiliferous sediment originated at that time.

The ‘gap’ theory has no basis in Scripture. Nor has the day-age idea (so-called ‘progressive creation’), or the Framework Hypothesis or theistic evolution.

The view, commonly used to evade the implications or the authority of Biblical teaching, that knowledge and/or truth may be divided into ‘secular’ and ‘religious’, is rejected.

Facts are always subject to interpretation by fallible people who do not possess all information. By definition, therefore, no interpretation of facts in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the scriptural record.

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Now...how can you have an intelligent discussion about opposing views with folks who will start a conversation with the preconceived idea that any and all new data must either be incorrect or be forced to conform to their already held world view?

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Actually, he said appeared from nothing. And it's not a leap of faith to make a scientific theory because scientific theories will be changed as the number of discoveries increase. With creationism, that leap of faith has been going a some time now.

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You will never be able to scientifically prove that something appeared out of nothing, therefore your theory is not based on science, but a leap of faith. Do not belittle Christians for taking a leap of faith when the alternative still requires one. At least Christians have a rational basis for their belief (all things created began with an eternal being, who is the final reference point for all logic). The alternative has an irrational basis (all things must be proven empirically, however we cannot prove that statement empirically, nor can we empirically prove our theory for the beginning, or basis, of all things).

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I'm sure you'll blow it off, the holy spirit is noticeable and present with those who have faith.

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So, I have to believe in the Holy Spirit before it makes itself noticeable? Sounds like a catch 22, or maybe just a silly idea.

God left the earth after the resurrection but sent the holy spirit in his place.

As far as other religions, other countries, I can't speak for everyone, but personally I think it may have something to do with the sins of the forefathers being passed down.

I don't know what I believe happens to people that have never been exposed to Jesus when they die.

Do they speak to God to have a chance to chose, after death? Does he speak to them before death? Are their hearts hardened because of sins generations past?

I'm just a man, I can't understand EVERYTHING. But I have seen God take a hopeless marriage and restore it. I have seen God give my son a second chance before he died.

I have come to accept long ago that this world is cruel.

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That's not original text it's a translation. The original text doesn't use the term "days" in reference to the 6 periods of time work was done.

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So now you are picking and choosing which versions of the Bible to base your arguments on? So if the 'days' in the very first chapter is incorrect... what else was misinterpreted or mis-translated. Perhaps Jesus was just in a coma? Or maybe He was wearing floaties...