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re: Being a teacher is tougher than any other job in the world
Posted on 7/30/18 at 2:26 pm to shel311
Posted on 7/30/18 at 2:26 pm to shel311
quote:“knows what it’s like”
Is he really arguing that it's logical for him to say he knows what it's like to be a parent, but his personal experiences parenting play no factor?
1
Posted on 7/30/18 at 2:27 pm to Pecker
quote:No. I'm giving you just a minuscule example of the details you would need to even come close. Those are things you'd have to handle for a few days and then something else would come up. What this comes down to is how you'd feel and react to being 100% responsible for someone else... constantly. The things they experience, their livelihood, their growth on every level. That's a level of responsibility that can't be learned or taught, it has to be experienced to understand what it takes.
So what you’re suggesting is that if I could explain those things then I’d know what it’s like to be a parent?
Posted on 7/30/18 at 2:28 pm to Pecker
You're an idiot.
Anyone who would lump all educators together, and call them delusional, is pretty vacant. Maybe you should stick to talking crap about things to which you actually have a clue.
The professions you list all require two things: a strong back and a weak mind.
Let me tell you, I've done both....I taught for years while coaching basketball and baseball, and I've done physical labor outside in the summer heat.
I have to tell you, teaching is a much more difficult job.
Teachers earn their money. By the time you added up the hours I spend doing lesson plans, coaching ball, going to games, having parent conferences, attending mandated conferences, etc., took those hours and divided it into my pay, I may have been making minimum wage.
Just like every profession, teachers have their bad apples. But for the vast part, a desire to help others, be a moral example and impart knowledge, is at the root of why teachers do what they do.
Your signature name is apt....I might add the prefix "little" based on your OP.
Anyone who would lump all educators together, and call them delusional, is pretty vacant. Maybe you should stick to talking crap about things to which you actually have a clue.
The professions you list all require two things: a strong back and a weak mind.
Let me tell you, I've done both....I taught for years while coaching basketball and baseball, and I've done physical labor outside in the summer heat.
I have to tell you, teaching is a much more difficult job.
Teachers earn their money. By the time you added up the hours I spend doing lesson plans, coaching ball, going to games, having parent conferences, attending mandated conferences, etc., took those hours and divided it into my pay, I may have been making minimum wage.
Just like every profession, teachers have their bad apples. But for the vast part, a desire to help others, be a moral example and impart knowledge, is at the root of why teachers do what they do.
Your signature name is apt....I might add the prefix "little" based on your OP.
Posted on 7/30/18 at 2:29 pm to Pecker
quote:YEs, you would have a better understanding of it.
Let’s say I could describe in detail what a parent of a new born must do on a daily basis. Lets say I sat down with a bunch of new parents and they talked me through their responsibilities. Let’s say I list out every single task and assign time to those tasks. Then I describe the feelings associated with those tasks (as described to me by the parents).
And then let’s say 10 other parents made similar lists, and then we gave those lists to you without your knowing who made them. Would you be able to tell who had a deeper “understanding” of taking care of a new born, and the feelings associated with it?
But seeing a list of feelings does not equate to actually feeling these feelings, so at the end of the day, you still don't know what it's like.
Let me take it to the extreme. Let's say a parent has a young child, 2 or 3 years old that dies some horrific death. Because that parent described what that experience felt like on a piece of paper, and you read that piece of paper detailing his/her feelings. Are you going to sit here with a straight face and now tell me you know what it's like for a parent to have their young child? Can we be logical for a sec here?
Posted on 7/30/18 at 2:29 pm to Displaced
quote:basically
This can all be boiled down to sympathizing vs empathizing.
You can basically know what it would be like to live without an arm, but you never really know what it's like till you fall off that ladder with a chainsaw.
I can understand the challenges associated with it. Will my understanding be as great as the armless man? No. Must it be for me to have an opinion on armless men? No. If I spent years working with armless people then maybe I have a pretty good understanding.
Posted on 7/30/18 at 2:30 pm to shel311
quote:I don’t know why you keep saying “know what is like.” That nebulous phrase has no real meaning.
YEs, you would have a better understanding of it.
But seeing a list of feelings does not equate to actually feeling these feelings, so at the end of the day, you still don't know what it's like.
Posted on 7/30/18 at 2:33 pm to Pecker
That's fair, and I kinda agree with your general point. You can't 100% empathize but you can have a pretty good idea.
Posted on 7/30/18 at 2:33 pm to Pecker
No one is saying you can't have an opinion. I said as much in my first comment.
What do you think is more vital to a job? Which one is more desirable? 8 years experience or 8 years in training?
What do you think is more vital to a job? Which one is more desirable? 8 years experience or 8 years in training?
Posted on 7/30/18 at 2:33 pm to Pecker
The toughest part has to be deciding which ones you can trust not to tell about the sex!
Posted on 7/30/18 at 2:34 pm to Pecker
quote:Because it's the exact phrase you used.
I don’t know why you keep saying “know what is like.” That nebulous phrase has no real meaning.
You don't know why I keep saying, then why did you say it?
Posted on 7/30/18 at 2:34 pm to Pecker
Posted on 7/30/18 at 2:35 pm to Pecker
I have been a teacher.
It's not a cakewalk, and is a lot of work. It can be rewarding. It is not the hardest/toughest job there is.
It's not a cakewalk, and is a lot of work. It can be rewarding. It is not the hardest/toughest job there is.
Posted on 7/30/18 at 2:37 pm to Pecker
quote:
can understand the challenges associated with it. Will my understanding be as great as the armless man? No. Must it be for me to have an opinion on armless men? No. If I spent years working with armless people then maybe I have a pretty good understanding.
But even that is different. You have two arms. You can get a pretty good approximation for what it would be like to not have one of those arms.
Parenthood is about much more than taking something away from you. I'd argue the emotional part of it is the biggest part of it, and that's difficult/impossible to understand without being a parent.
Posted on 7/30/18 at 2:38 pm to ell_13
quote:I disagree. The entire reason for saying that someone doesn’t understand what something is like is to then tell them that they can’t have an opinion on the matter. That’s the whole reason for telling someone they don’t “understand.”
No one is saying you can't have an opinion. I said as much in my first comment.
That was the underlying point of LNCHBOX’s first post:
quote:I actually can have “a clue” about stresses that accompany parenthood. I won’t appreciate them the way you will, or be able to recall those emotions, but I can understand the challenges one experiences. I could even sit down and describe them to you.
People that don't want kids but act like they have a clue about the stress that is parenthood.
Posted on 7/30/18 at 2:40 pm to Pecker
quote:So you'd agree that while you certainly can know all the things you just said, but you won't actually know what it's like, right?
I actually can have “a clue” about stresses that accompany parenthood. I won’t appreciate them the way you will, or be able to recall those emotions, but I can understand the challenges one experiences
Posted on 7/30/18 at 2:40 pm to shel311
quote:
Why do I have to have kids to know that parenthood can be stressful?
This is why we’re here
Posted on 7/30/18 at 2:42 pm to Pecker
quote:I know it can be stressful to lose 9 members of your family in a duckboat accident.
This is why we’re here
I do not know what that is actually like.
You're telling me you know what it's like, you've said that exact line word for word. You don't think at any point that is just a little silly and naive on your part?
I'd never once think to say, "Yea, I saw the surviving family member's interview, so I know what it's like to lose 9 family members in a tragic accident."
This post was edited on 7/30/18 at 2:44 pm
Posted on 7/30/18 at 2:43 pm to Pecker
quote:You can have an opinion. Your experiences matter in how valid that opinion is and how people react to it. That's with anything. Doesn't mean you can't have one and it doesn't mean (on the macro level) that you'll always be right or wrong. But without experience, you are more likely to be wrong in general. That's with everything though. Hence my question about experience vs training being a preferred resume item.
The entire reason for saying that someone doesn’t understand what something is like is to then tell them that they can’t have an opinion on the matter. That’s the whole reason for telling someone they don’t “understand.”
quote:You are running in a circle here. Without full appreciating of the intricacies, you can't have full understanding. And there are emotions that exist with parenting that you don't get anywhere else. So they can't be recalled. So you are missing prerequisites.
I actually can have “a clue” about stresses that accompany parenthood. I won’t appreciate them the way you will, or be able to recall those emotions, but I can understand the challenges one experiences.
Posted on 7/30/18 at 2:46 pm to Pecker
quote:
I actually can have “a clue” about stresses that accompany parenthood. I won’t appreciate them the way you will, or be able to recall those emotions, but I can understand the challenges one experiences. I could even sit down and describe them to you.
I agree with all of this except the bolded part. Knowing that the challenges exist and understanding the challenges are two different animals entirely.
Posted on 7/30/18 at 2:51 pm to slackster
quote:I think this is where the impasse is, and we should just agree to disagree...but we won't lol.
I agree with all of this except the bolded part. Knowing that the challenges exist and understanding the challenges are two different animals entirely.
He is basically saying what you are saying here is just us fixating on a minor detail.
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