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re: At $9600 per, Bitcoin is expected to hit the $10,000 mark today.

Posted on 11/29/17 at 1:24 pm to
Posted by Croacka
Denham Springs
Member since Dec 2008
61451 posts
Posted on 11/29/17 at 1:24 pm to
and now we're crashing...
Posted by rocket31
Member since Jan 2008
41887 posts
Posted on 11/29/17 at 1:25 pm to

your broader point is right: Bitcoin like cash or gold requires that you take the responsibility to secure it yourself
Posted by Bullfrog
Running Through the Wet Grass
Member since Jul 2010
61178 posts
Posted on 11/29/17 at 1:26 pm to
quote:

There has to be a way around this problem that people smarter than me can come up with. I would say having a third party crypto wallet holder would be an answe
That’s what the Pillar Project (PLR) is rolling out 1Q.

Beta testing right now. You will have full control of your identity and accounts. Your armor in the crypto-world.

You can google them for more details.
Posted by LesMiles BFF
Lafayette
Member since May 2014
5101 posts
Posted on 11/29/17 at 1:29 pm to
quote:

Bitcoin like cash or gold requires that you take the responsibility to secure it yourself


Gotcha.

Well I just don’t feel like it can take over governmental backed currency until you can safely store some of it somewhere so you aren’t financially wiped out with one simple data hack.

And that’s the problem I guess because the allure of crypto currency is that you don’t depend on anyone.
Posted by bee Rye
New orleans
Member since Jan 2006
34580 posts
Posted on 11/29/17 at 1:29 pm to
Les,

You store your bitcoin on a hard wallet. It’s a flash drive. You are the only person with the key to open that flash drive. If the drive gets stolen or ruined, there is a recovery process in place. If you lose your money by leaving it in an online wallet, that would be no different than joe blow having money in an online sports book that gets shut down.
This post was edited on 11/29/17 at 1:31 pm
Posted by LesMiles BFF
Lafayette
Member since May 2014
5101 posts
Posted on 11/29/17 at 1:31 pm to
quote:

Beta testing right now. You will have full control of your identity and accounts. Your armor in the crypto-world.


Interesting. Good luck to them.

Hope they have better security than Equifax or a whole bunch of crypto millionaires will be crypto- broke.
Posted by LesMiles BFF
Lafayette
Member since May 2014
5101 posts
Posted on 11/29/17 at 1:34 pm to
quote:

You store your bitcoin on a hard wallet. It’s a flash drive. You are the only person with the key to open that flash drive. If the drive gets stolen or ruined, there is a recovery process in place. If you lose your money by leaving it in an online wallet, that would be no different than joe blow having money in an online sports book that gets shut down.


I get what you’re saying here. But the consequence of this is that you have to have all of your money on that flash drive in case that online wallet storage fails.

What do you mean you are they only person that can open that flash drive? Do you mean a password protected drive?
Posted by Croacka
Denham Springs
Member since Dec 2008
61451 posts
Posted on 11/29/17 at 1:35 pm to
quote:

Well I just don’t feel like it can take over governmental backed currency until you can safely store some of it somewhere so you aren’t financially wiped out with one simple data hack.



cant you store it on an offline wallet?
Posted by Thib-a-doe Tiger
Member since Nov 2012
36758 posts
Posted on 11/29/17 at 1:37 pm to
quote:

cant you store it on an offline wallet?




What happens if it fails?
Posted by Jack Bauers HnK
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2008
6078 posts
Posted on 11/29/17 at 1:57 pm to
An “offline” wallet doesn’t actually store coins, it stores your password that allows you to transfer your coins from your address. Your coins are always on the block chain, what’s important is making sure that you are the only person who can transfer them. If your hardware wallet fails, you can recover the key with your 24 word phrase on another hardware wallet. The benefit of a hardware wallet is that you never actually type the password into a website or program in your computer so a key logger can never get your password.
Posted by lsu480
Downtown Scottsdale
Member since Oct 2007
92903 posts
Posted on 11/29/17 at 2:36 pm to
quote:

HnK


Heckler & Koch?
Posted by Jack Bauers HnK
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2008
6078 posts
Posted on 11/29/17 at 2:42 pm to
quote:

Heckler & Koch?


When I signed up, a google search suggested that Bauer used H&K a lot throughout the series. I suck at picking user names lol.
Posted by Carson123987
Middle Court at the Rec
Member since Jul 2011
68038 posts
Posted on 11/29/17 at 2:42 pm to
yes
Posted by TigerstuckinMS
Member since Nov 2005
33687 posts
Posted on 11/29/17 at 2:42 pm to
Everyone fails to point at what I think is Bitcoin's giant elephant in the middle of the room: electricity consumption.

The bitcoin network currently uses about 29 TWh/yr of electricity, which is about 0.13% of the world's output. That's more electricity than about 160 or so individual nations consume. It uses all of this power to process the mind-numbingly low total of about 300,000 transactions a day. Visa alone processes 150,000,000 transactions a day. So, Visa ALONE processes transactions at 500 times the rate the bitcoin network currently does.

Since the bitcoin network is designed to require, on average, a certain number of calculations to verify and process a transaction, it is reasonable to assume that the number of calculations required scales proportionally to the number of transactions processed. So, if it currently uses 0.13% of the world's power to process 300,000 transactions a day, it would require 65% of the world's power to handle the transactions that ONLY Visa processes, and that's if there is enough physical hardware attached to the network to even accomplish that.

That doesn't even address the fact that in order to provide the security and trust in its transaction processing, the protocol responds to an increase of power connected to the network by increasing the difficulty of processing a transaction. So, as more power becomes available to process transactions, the amount of power required to process a single transaction increases.

I'm genuinely curious how this pans out. I believe that the blockchain technology is revolutionary, but the Bitcoin implementation's Achilles' Heel is how astronomical its energy usage necessarily becomes as the network grows in size. In theory, it's a brilliant piece of math and logic. In practice, I think the Bitcoin implementation is limited in the scale it's feasible over and it ultimately will crash as it becomes apparent that it's not going to replace other forms of currency or wealth transfer or it is replaced by more agile and energy efficient implementations of blockchain tech that can realistically perform as required.

If I've misunderstood something technically that will prevent the energy use from skyrocketing or that will make the processing of transactions more efficient, please let me know. I understand the numbers in the calculations and analyses might not be exact and the inputs put into the assumptions may vary. It gets the point across though that the protocol's security is ensured by, in a very real sense, turning a staggering amount of electricity into the trust that a single transaction is secure.

Links to a couple of articles highlighting the problem.
Vice
Business Insider
Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers
This post was edited on 11/30/17 at 10:55 am
Posted by NikeShox
Toula Baw
Member since Sep 2016
1251 posts
Posted on 11/29/17 at 2:54 pm to
shite. I threw my hard drive full of Bitcoin in the landfill about 5 years ago worth about 24million. Still looking
Posted by Jack Bauers HnK
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2008
6078 posts
Posted on 11/29/17 at 2:56 pm to
Proof of stake is intended to solve the energy consumption for ethereum. Each node can stake an amount of ether and only certain nodes will be required to verify a transaction. If that node attempts to do something nefarious, they can lose their staked ethereum. They are then paid a % of ether to process the transactions. This disincentivizes malicious activity while incentivizing running nodes to protect the integrity of ethereum while reducing the energy consumption of the current proof of work system.

This is my basic understanding of the intended solution. You can google for much better explanations.
Posted by TigerTatorTots
The Safeshore
Member since Jul 2009
82209 posts
Posted on 11/29/17 at 3:23 pm to
Buying opportunity over the next couple days guys
Posted by TigerTatorTots
The Safeshore
Member since Jul 2009
82209 posts
Posted on 11/29/17 at 3:25 pm to
quote:

cant you store it on an offline wallet?
quote:

What happens if it fails?



lolwut? As in the flash drive fails?
Posted by TigerTatorTots
The Safeshore
Member since Jul 2009
82209 posts
Posted on 11/29/17 at 3:26 pm to
Your post is the reason why Ethereum needs to be discussed more IMO
Posted by 25 Point Lead
Member since Nov 2017
575 posts
Posted on 11/29/17 at 3:34 pm to
quote:

cant you store it on an offline wallet?




What happens if it fails?


They offer wallets with insurance

NASDAQ plans to allow trading in Bitcoin futures in 2018. So you'll be able to make or lose money on it without actually owning it
This post was edited on 11/29/17 at 3:35 pm
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