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re: AP: Parents begged cops to enter school as shooting unfolded. Cops refused
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:27 am to GreatLakesTiger24
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:27 am to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
it would be pretty easy to take out the one line of defense with any amount of planning
I think the fact that they know armed police are there makes it less appealing as a target...a deterrent
1
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:27 am to cable
quote:
LEO should - at least - have tactical shotguns in that situation. Why would they walk into a firefight like that with just Glocks?
So now you want them to wait on firepower? Or want them shooting a shotgun in an elementary school?
The first two cops responded immediately, and attempted to do what everyone in this thread and their training dictate that they do. They were shot, and the shooter then barricaded himself in a classroom that those officers were unable to access.
This post was edited on 5/26/22 at 8:30 am
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:31 am to Indefatigable
quote:
So now you want them to wait on firepower? Or want them shooting a shotgun in an elementary school?
They should have those kind of weapons in their cruisers - and there was already plenty of gunfire going on - a 12 gauge will pattern pretty tight at 50 feet anyway - as anyone that has ever shot one can tell you. But the stopping power of 00 buck is a hell of lot more intense than a 9mm.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:32 am to Indefatigable
I assumed that all cops had either a rifle or shotgun in their trunk.
You certainly do not want to bring a pistol to a rifle fight. That's a bad position to be in.
You certainly do not want to bring a pistol to a rifle fight. That's a bad position to be in.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:35 am to Indefatigable
quote:
This set of things could have happened in 30 seconds.
Except it didnt, are you actually following the news on this?
We have children/teachers that have spoken to the news talking about hiding and the border patrol officer and others coming in at presumably the 90 minute mark since that is when the suspect was reportedly killed...and the killer was still actively shooting kids. Cause the eyewitnesses classmate was killed in front of him
quote:
"When I heard the shooting through the door, I told my friend to hide under something so he won't find us," he said. “I was hiding hard. And I was telling my friend to not talk because he is going to hear us.”
The boy and four others hid under a table that had a tablecloth over it, which may have shielded them from the shooter's view and saved their lives. The boy shared heartbreaking details about what happened in that room.
“When the cops came, the cop said: 'Yell if you need help!' And one of the persons in my class said 'help.' The guy overheard and he came in and shot her," the boy said. "The cop barged into that classroom. The guy shot at the cop. And the cop started shooting.”
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:35 am to Indefatigable
quote:
who only had handguns.
I'm not here assuming the police did anything wrong, but it seems like an AR or shotgun is standard in every squad car now? I certainly understand its faster to jump out with your pistol on your body, but I'm assuming those ones that are kept between the seats are super fast to grab?
Im just saying with 2 cops after him, I'm surprised neither would have an AR or shotgun.
Given that, a shotgun in a school would not be that helpful against an AR I wouldn't think. Its very possible its far enough away to make a shotgun a less than ideal weapon.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:36 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
The whole timeline is confusing.
-Nobody knows if the school resource officer ever engaged the shooter.
-Apparently, the doors weren't locked, so the shooter was able to go right into the school.
-Pursuing officers did apparently engage him right at the start, but they were shot and the shooter went into the classroom. After this point, things get really confusing.
Locked entrances may have prevented this entire massacre from taking place.
-Nobody knows if the school resource officer ever engaged the shooter.
-Apparently, the doors weren't locked, so the shooter was able to go right into the school.
-Pursuing officers did apparently engage him right at the start, but they were shot and the shooter went into the classroom. After this point, things get really confusing.
Locked entrances may have prevented this entire massacre from taking place.
This post was edited on 5/26/22 at 8:38 am
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:37 am to Indefatigable
quote:
in a classroom that those officers were unable to access.
Again, you are actively making things up to defend the police at this point.
When officer(s) finally decided 90 minutes in to reengage, they were reportedly able to just bust in and engage the suspect according to one of the children/teachers that survived.
This post was edited on 5/26/22 at 8:39 am
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:38 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
I assumed that all cops had either a rifle or shotgun in their trunk.
You certainly do not want to bring a pistol to a rifle fight. That's a bad position to be in.
The video I posted of the cops holding court outside the school and getting ready to taze parents shows the officers armed to the teeth.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:38 am to Bronc
quote:
Except it didnt, are you actually following the news on this? We have children/teachers that have spoken to the news talking about hiding and the border patrol officer and others coming in at presumably the 90 minute mark since that is when the suspect was reportedly killed...and the killer was still actively shooting kids. Cause the eyewitnesses classmate was killed in front of him
Only what DPS has said. If the facts match what the eyewitnesses report from your quote, then yea the cops arriving after the first two are going to have a problem
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:39 am to Bronc
quote:
Again, you are actively making things up to defend the police at this point.
That came directly from DPS’s spokesman in his CNN interview.
And as my comment said, the room was inaccessible to those first two officers that had engaged. It could be because they were injured, or didn’t have the right equipment to bust in. I didn’t say it was inaccessible period
This post was edited on 5/26/22 at 8:41 am
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:40 am to Sun God
quote:
Multiple armed men refusing to put their lives on the line to save children is fricking disgusting
I wouldn’t call them “men”
Men were the founding fathers and revolutionary army who risked their entire livelihood for freedom and to form a constitutional republic with proper representation in government.
These police officers who are fully armed and equipped were cowards who let innocent children get murdered by a mentally sick, weak individual
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:41 am to baldona
quote:
make a shotgun a less than ideal weapon.
A shotgun is rarely ideal, but its vastly more useful than a pistol as a primary weapon. The old saying is that a pistol is only useful for fighting your way to a rifle.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:41 am to Bronc
quote:
Bronc
Just so everyone is clear your stance on this is:
1.) News is reporting everything correctly and 100% believable without any narratives.
2.) Police are idiots and screwed up every way manageable?
Is this fair?
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:41 am to Topwater Trout
quote:i guess for some. it would be pretty easy to find and shoot the cop before you start killing others.
I think the fact that they know armed police are there makes it less appealing as a target...a deterrent
these people are usually ready and/or planning to die.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:41 am to baldona
quote:
Given that, a shotgun in a school would not be that helpful against an AR I wouldn't think. Its very possible its far enough away to make a shotgun a less than ideal weapon.
You can shoot 00 buck 150 feet and still have it pattern. I doubt they were ever more than 50 feet from this a-hole. You don't need to shoot 200 yards with a scope in these situations. An AR would have been fine too - just going into a fight like this with just a pistol just seems like a bad idea.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:41 am to GetCocky11
quote:
Apparently, the doors weren't locked, so the shooter was able to go right into the school.
This is what’s most bizarre to me. I can remember having doors at school 30 years ago that were outside locked even during school hours and you had to access from the front entrance.
Most recently, we had fob entrances and during high traffic times (first thing in AM) had staff checking student IDs as they came in the building.
This post was edited on 5/26/22 at 8:43 am
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:43 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:
This is what’s most bizarre to me. I can remember having doors at school 30 years ago that were outside locked even during school hours and you had to access from the front entrance.
Most recently, we had fob entrances and during high traffic times (first this in AM) had staff checking student IDs as they came in the building.
Its confusing to me as well.
School by me, every entrance is locked, and the main office looks out onto the main entrance and has an intercom system in place for anyone attempting to enter. I get that it isn't 100% secure, but if it can buy the school a couple minutes, that can go a LONG way in saving lives.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:43 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
A shotgun is rarely ideal, but its vastly more useful than a pistol as a primary weapon. The old saying is that a pistol is only useful for fighting your way to a rifle.
Depends on the situation, I'm not ignorant here.
My point was that maybe the first responding officers only had shotguns in the front of the squad car and AR's in their trunk. They grabbed the shotguns but the pistols were better for engaging the POS in a long hallway?
IDK. I'm just saying, it would be abnormal now a days for 2 officers to respond to a shooting and neither have immediate access to an AR or shotgun.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:44 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
A shotgun is rarely ideal
But when it is - it's perfect. At 50 feet - or less -I'd take it over anything else. It can literally almost cut a thing in half.
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