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re: Anybody conceal carry in school?

Posted on 10/2/15 at 11:15 am to
Posted by REB BEER
Laffy Yet
Member since Dec 2010
18344 posts
Posted on 10/2/15 at 11:15 am to
When I was at LSU in the 90's I kept a small semi-auto handgun in my backpack. There was lot's of racial tension then with David Duke and everything going on.
This post was edited on 10/2/15 at 11:18 am
Posted by Kracka
Lafayette, Louisiana
Member since Aug 2004
42506 posts
Posted on 10/2/15 at 11:22 am to
The question here is, do you think that if a student or faculty member was packing at school, and happen to save a lot of lives during an active shooting, by killing or shooting the person. Would they get expelled or fired?
Posted by ctowntiger
Centreville, MS
Member since Jul 2005
879 posts
Posted on 10/2/15 at 11:36 am to
quote:

The question here is, do you think that if a student or faculty member was packing at school, and happen to save a lot of lives during an active shooting, by killing or shooting the person. Would they get expelled or fired?


If it was at Southeastern you would probably have to fill out 6 forms and wait in line at the registrars office first.
This post was edited on 10/2/15 at 11:37 am
Posted by Five0
Member since Dec 2009
11354 posts
Posted on 10/2/15 at 11:54 am to
I'm currently enrolled in school at a campus that does not allow weapons of any type. Even for students in my line of work. The security guards are unarmed and we are in an urban environment. Last year a dead junkie was found across the street and the year before that a student was assaulted just outside the school. I still carry. No one has ever noticed, and I know for a fact I'm not the only person that carries.
This post was edited on 10/2/15 at 12:58 pm
Posted by Hammertime
Will trade dowsing rod for titties
Member since Jan 2012
43031 posts
Posted on 10/2/15 at 11:55 am to
Yes, I would expect them to be expelled and charged. Charges would get dropped because of media coverage, but expulsion would stick. They should expect it also, but be okay with it knowing that they saved many lives.

Of course they have the option of not saving their classmate's lives and keeping it holstered, saving themselves from expulsion
Posted by swanny297
NELA
Member since Oct 2013
2189 posts
Posted on 10/2/15 at 12:03 pm to
quote:

do you think that if a student or faculty member was packing at school, and happen to save a lot of lives during an active shooting


Since the OP carries every day I am sure he knows this already.....

Unless you are being engaged you conceal carry permit isn't an open permit to pull out your firearm and try to be the hero. As sad as this scenario is, even if you save lives and kill the shooter, if you kill or injure any innocent bystanders there are people in the world that will want to see you trialed/jailed for your actions. On the other hand if you are being engaged, and you killed the shooter you are still going to be arrested and charged, having gun in a gun free zone will come with stiff penalties as part of this arrest.
Posted by Five0
Member since Dec 2009
11354 posts
Posted on 10/2/15 at 12:08 pm to
quote:

if you kill or injure any innocent bystanders there are people in the world that will want to see you trialed/jailed for your actions.


Would be a misdemeanor crime in my state. (Criminally neglect homicide) The civil issues will suck though.

quote:

n the other hand if you are being engaged, and you killed the shooter you are still going to be arrested and charged, having gun in a gun free zone will come with stiff penalties as part of this arrest.


I would not arrest you. Take your weapon for evidence, sure. I doubt a grand jury would indict. If they did, good luck on the state finding 12 to unanimously convict you.

ETA:

When I said I would not arrest you on scene it did not mean I would not testify as to why I did not arrest.
This post was edited on 10/2/15 at 12:15 pm
Posted by thelsutigers
Dallas, TX
Member since Nov 2009
3482 posts
Posted on 10/2/15 at 12:08 pm to
Next year in Texas it will be legal.


quote:

Effective Dates: August 1, 2016 for all state 4-year colleges and universities; August 1, 2017 for all state 2-year and junior colleges.
The new Texas law will permit individuals who have obtained a concealed handgun license (CHL) to carry their loaded, concealed weapon in college and university buildings. Each college and university may determine certain sensitive areas and buildings* where concealed weapons will continue to be prohibited. Each college and university must publically display campus policies on the official school website, as well as widely publicizing it among correspondence with the institution’s faculty, staff, and students. Previous laws permitting the concealed carry with a license on open campus grounds and in locked vehicles in parking lots will remain unchanged (see note 2 below).
*The sensitive areas will first be determined by the institution and will include representatives from the student body, faculty, and staff. Once the sensitive areas are approved by this committee, they will be sent to the Board of Regents for a 2/3 vote for approval.


quote:

On June 14, 2013, Governor Perry signed into law SB 1907, which states that an institution of higher education or private or independent institution of higher education may not adopt or enforce any rule, regulation, or other provision or take any other action, including posting notice under Section 30.06, Penal Code, prohibiting or placing restrictions on the storage or transportation of a firearm or ammunition in a locked, privately owned or leased motor vehicle by a person, including a student enrolled at that institution, who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun and lawfully possesses the firearm or ammunition:
(1) on a street or driveway located on the campus of the institution; or
(2) in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area located on the campus of the institution.
The Act takes effect September 1, 2013.
This post was edited on 10/2/15 at 12:11 pm
Posted by Kracka
Lafayette, Louisiana
Member since Aug 2004
42506 posts
Posted on 10/2/15 at 12:10 pm to
quote:

On the other hand if you are being engaged, and you killed the shooter you are still going to be arrested and charged, having gun in a gun free zone will come with stiff penalties as part of this arrest.


Do you really think any DA would actually charge someone in this situation? I don't.
Posted by Hammertime
Will trade dowsing rod for titties
Member since Jan 2012
43031 posts
Posted on 10/2/15 at 12:21 pm to
Absolutely
Posted by OleBallCoach
Member since Nov 2007
1089 posts
Posted on 10/2/15 at 12:26 pm to
(no message)
This post was edited on 11/17/15 at 9:15 pm
Posted by Interweb Cowboy
NW Bama
Member since Dec 2010
3193 posts
Posted on 10/2/15 at 1:17 pm to
quote:

Unless you are being engaged you conceal carry permit isn't an open permit to pull out your firearm and try to be the hero. As sad as this scenario is, even if you save lives and kill the shooter, if you kill or injure any innocent bystanders there are people in the world that will want to see you trialed/jailed for your actions. On the other hand if you are being engaged, and you killed the shooter you are still going to be arrested and charged, having gun in a gun free zone will come with stiff penalties as part of this arrest.


I have already stated in this thread that my prefered course of action is run, hide and then fight as the last resort with whatever is available.
Posted by swanny297
NELA
Member since Oct 2013
2189 posts
Posted on 10/2/15 at 1:29 pm to
quote:

I would not arrest you

You will almost certainly deal with the police after a defensive gun use. They will in all likelihood respond to the scene of the shooting, which you most likely would have reported after the shooting, and they will treat it as a crime scene. On scene you will be treated as a criminal suspect.

You will likely be handcuffed, spend a night (or more!) in jail, and most definitely will need to explain and defend your actions to the criminal justice system: the police, prosecutors, and possibly a jury of your peers. How well you do that, and the resources you may or may not have at your disposal to help you through that process, will have a huge impact on the rest of your life.

quote:

Would be a misdemeanor crime in my state
Still a felony charge with felony consequences. There is always lawsuits that follow on behalf on the families as well.

I carry to protect myself and my family, its unfortunate for those that lost their lives, but rather than try to argue "what if" or "do you carry at school" scenarios, we should try to get laws changed so a gunmen wouldn't want to enter a school zone because he/she has no idea if the first person they encounter will have a gun or not. Gun free zones are prime targets...
Posted by Five0
Member since Dec 2009
11354 posts
Posted on 10/2/15 at 1:57 pm to
quote:

and they will treat it as a crime scene.


Correct.

quote:

On scene you will be treated as a criminal suspect. You will likely be handcuffed, spend a night (or more!) in jail,


Did not happen to the last two shooters in cases I took part in. Actually the last one, the guy that was shot was accompanied by us to the hospital, where he was treated, and then later arrested by my agency. Scenarios are fact dependant.

quote:

Still a felony charge with felony consequences.


No.
(c) Criminally negligent homicide is a Class A misdemeanor, except in cases in which the criminally negligent homicide is caused by the driver or operator of a vehicle or vessel who is driving or operating the vehicle or vessel in violation of Section 32-5A-191 or 32-5A-191.3. (DUI)

Posted by Hawkeye76
NW LA
Member since Dec 2013
68 posts
Posted on 10/2/15 at 2:07 pm to
quote:

Do you really think any DA would actually charge someone in this situation? I don't.


I would. I'm not a lawyer but that's the first thing I would go after. Even though the person did the right thing, that person is still carrying in a gun free zone. I don't agree with it, just playing devils advocate here. That person broke the law, even though he stopped someone else who was breaking the law....
Posted by Hawkeye76
NW LA
Member since Dec 2013
68 posts
Posted on 10/2/15 at 2:09 pm to
quote:

I carry to protect myself and my family, its unfortunate for those that lost their lives, but rather than try to argue "what if" or "do you carry at school" scenarios, we should try to get laws changed so a gunmen wouldn't want to enter a school zone because he/she has no idea if the first person they encounter will have a gun or not. Gun free zones are prime targets...


This.....
Posted by swanny297
NELA
Member since Oct 2013
2189 posts
Posted on 10/2/15 at 3:38 pm to
Lots of subsections in the Alabama criminal code you could be charged with if you tried to be a hero in a situation like this and more innocent people were killed.

Section 13A-6-2 - Murder.

(a) A person commits the crime of murder if he or she does any of the following:

(2) Under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to human life, he or she recklessly engages in conduct which creates a grave risk of death to a person other than himself or herself, and thereby causes the death of another person.
Posted by Peazey
Metry
Member since Apr 2012
25428 posts
Posted on 10/2/15 at 3:41 pm to


Your scenario depends on someone who is planning on committing suicide being afraid of dying.
Posted by Five0
Member since Dec 2009
11354 posts
Posted on 10/2/15 at 4:00 pm to
Murder must have the element of intent. Google mens rea and get back to me on that point.

Furthermore, how do you prove extreme indifference to human life when the person is acting to defend their life and the lives of others.

Hint, you don't. While you are googling try this code too:

13A-3-23
Pay special attention to section (d) of that statute.
This post was edited on 10/2/15 at 4:10 pm
Posted by Hawkeye76
NW LA
Member since Dec 2013
68 posts
Posted on 10/2/15 at 4:13 pm to
quote:

Your scenario depends on someone who is planning on committing suicide being afraid of dying.


Correct. But what if the shooters family, or even the school decides to sue? Or even a student that was in the room at the time, yet wasn't harmed?
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