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Posted on 10/1/15 at 7:59 pm to Bmath
quote:
No, he feels unsafe and therefore carries a gun. Hence living in a state of fear.
I definitely do not live in fear, I carry because I want options. If I am not carrying I do not have that option. I believe the best course of action in most circumstances is run, hide, than fight. If I have to fight I want something to fight with.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 8:05 pm to OMLandshark
Well why do they choose gun free zones to commit these mass murders?
I'll answer that for ya. It's because they know the people there are defenseless and they'll be able to kill for a while before someone can stop them.
I'll answer that for ya. It's because they know the people there are defenseless and they'll be able to kill for a while before someone can stop them.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 8:16 pm to sloopy
quote:In Alabama you can have it in your vehicle if you are a CCP holder. Used to be that you couldn't have it in your car on school grounds, period, but they changed the law a couple of years ago.
What is the ruling on this? Car is considered an extension of your home, but you're in a no gun zone.
All the k12 schools have signs out that say "absolutely no weapons," but my neighbor, who was a deputy at the time, told me that the sheriff's office had decided that it was impossible to enforce the law for people dropping off/picking up their kids and as long as it stayed in your car, you were fine.
As for the point that if they can't see it, how are you going to get caught -- they have dogs trained to sniff them: gun oil, powder, solvents, etc. I know UA has one. They take it around the dorms every now and then and always have it handy on gameday.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 8:17 pm to HarryBalzack
You can also carry on some campuses with an ehhanced carry permit.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 8:19 pm to PawnMaster
quote:
Well why do they choose gun free zones to commit these mass murders?
I'll answer that for ya. It's because they know the people there are defenseless and they'll be able to kill for a while before someone can stop them.
Ding ding ding, we have a winner on why these pieces of shite shoot up schools.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 8:28 pm to PawnMaster
quote:
Well why do they choose gun free zones to commit these mass murders?
I'll answer that for ya. It's because they know the people there are defenseless and they'll be able to kill for a while before someone can stop them.
OK, let's play through your little scenario. Let's say the killer doesn't give a frick and still wants to shoot up a college. Let's say in a class of 250, 10 are carrying. The killer storms in the class and starts shooting. Half the students hit the floor, and then half the students flee for the fire exit. The ones with concealed all stand up and start shooting at the murderer. What's the likely thing that's going to happen there? At least an additional 10 students are killed, and probably one or two of the guys carrying when another carrier mistakes them for the original shooter, especially if they were sitting close to the classroom doors. Yeah, fantastic idea for students, who in all likelihood aren't trained to handle those weapons properly, particularly in a chaotic situation that this would be. Anyone with an IQ above room temperature would know this scenario would happen if students were packing heat in the classrooms.
I'll tell you why college campuses are popular places to shoot up: because they're high profile. You seem to think that these guys that shoot up schools are your typical criminal, like the ones who rob a gas station, the ones who rape women, or the ones who rob your house. Here's the big difference: those guys are all about self-preservation, and don't want to get caught. Concealed carrying likely will deter these individuals.
Aside from a mass murderer, who is going to target a college? They don't have mass amounts of cash lying around. They are high profile and have a lot of people to kill. A police station doesn't have a large number of people to kill, and they are trained to kill in highly chaotic situations. Where else is a mass murderer likely to kill, especially in the middle-of-no-where Oregon? A cinema on a big opening night, and that's about it, which would be an even worse place to have a large number of concealed carriers considering the darkness of the environment and the fact that the murderer could be sitting or standing anywhere.
An armed populace doesn't deter these psychopaths. Their goal is murder/suicide. I don't think you're quite registering that. So long as they can kill a half a dozen people, and then rest assured that the media will be reporting him for months on end making sure that no one forgets him, he's not going to give a frick if someone else is carrying. Do you think the fact that the US military was armed deterred the kamakazi pilots or the modern suicide bombers from carrying out their attacks. Their goal is death, but for their spirit to live on to be something greater.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 8:29 pm to Interweb Cowboy
IWB any time the crib is left. Period.
This post was edited on 10/1/15 at 9:25 pm
Posted on 10/1/15 at 8:30 pm to Interweb Cowboy
quote:
Ding ding ding, we have a winner on why these pieces of shite shoot up schools.
No we don't, we have a loser whose scenario would actually likely insight more deaths, and emotionally scar even more people who accidentally kill their fellow students. You are an absolute fool to think otherwise.
This post was edited on 10/1/15 at 8:38 pm
Posted on 10/1/15 at 8:32 pm to Interweb Cowboy
IMO, if your school doesn't take adequate precautions to ensure that guns are not brought into their buildings, then they should not be allowed to declare it a "gun free zone" and must allow people to conceal carry.
A sign with an X over an outline of a pistol isn't adequate security.
A sign with an X over an outline of a pistol isn't adequate security.
This post was edited on 10/1/15 at 8:34 pm
Posted on 10/1/15 at 8:39 pm to Interweb Cowboy
I don't in school, but there have been a few instances that made me think about it. It is highly illegal, so I wouldn't. If SHTF big time, it is in my truck 75 yards away and I'd get it with the quickness
Posted on 10/1/15 at 8:39 pm to OMLandshark
(no message)
Posted on 10/1/15 at 9:23 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Anyone with an IQ above room temperature would know this scenario would happen if students were packing heat in the classrooms.
So a room full unarmed students would be better off against a psychopath shooter vs a room where several have firearms? Is the school in your scenario the school for the blind? Why do you assume people carrying will be shooting so wildly? I understand that the situation would be chaotic and most aren't trained to handle such a situation but do you really think more students would die BECAUSE of people carrying? .
The first time the shooter hears another gun go off (if he isn't hit) will probably go ahead and off himself, return fire, or flee. All of which are better than just mowing down students.
I realize these aren't the same people who rob a gas station. And yes, I realize they're looking for something high profile but what is more high profile? Killing 15 students at a college or 5 at a grocery store? Of course they aren't afraid of death but they want to be remembered by taking as many lives as they can, THAT'S why so many choose schools. The more people they kill, the higher profile it is.
ETA: I would never condone someone carrying without training especially a college campus. I personally think colleges should offer some kind of course that offers legitimate training and students who take the course be allowed to carry on campus.
This post was edited on 10/1/15 at 9:42 pm
Posted on 10/1/15 at 9:27 pm to member12
quote:
A sign with an X over an outline of a pistol isn't adequate security.
It's more of an invitation.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 9:29 pm to Interweb Cowboy
I'm faculty, and if I was caught carrying they'd try to crucify me.
shite, they'd try to crucify me, too, if I happened to save the day with a carry weapon. It's a no-win situation.
shite, they'd try to crucify me, too, if I happened to save the day with a carry weapon. It's a no-win situation.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 9:38 pm to PawnMaster
quote:
So a room full unarmed students would be better off against a psychopath shooter vs a room where several have firearms? Is the school in your scenario the school for the blind? Why do you assume people carrying will be shooting so wildly? I understand that the situation would be chaotic and most aren't trained to handle such a situation but do you really think more students would die BECAUSE of people carrying?
The first time the shooter hears another gun go off (if he isn't hit) will probably go ahead and off himself, return fire, or flee. All of which are better than just mowing down students.
I realize these aren't the same people who rob a gas station. And yes, I realize they're looking for something high profile but what is more high profile? Killing 15 students at a college or 5 at a grocery store? Of course they aren't afraid of death but they want to be remembered by taking as many lives as they can, THAT'S why so many choose schools. The more people they kill, the higher profile it is.
Absolutely. I can just about guarantee that more students will be killed when some of them are armed than when they aren't. It's a highly, highly chaotic situation. Unless they are in the ROTC and have been in it for a few years, none of these students would be up for the task when their fellow students are fleeing from a mass murderer in terror. It's not that they're blind, it's that there is chaos. How is someone who is armed in the front or the middle of the class supposed to know when dozens of students are fleeing from the scene that when several other students in the back are standing up with guns that they themselves aren't the murderer.
Think of a freshman classroom. There were classes I was in that would have 400 students. The teacher nor the TAs can identify every student in there, and may just assume he was late and is about to take his seat, but instead proceeds to reign bullets on the classroom. A dozen armed students stand up, and no one will have a clue with the hundreds fleeing where that fire is exactly coming from, leading to mass violence and death. In a senior classroom, sure the armed students would stand a chance since they recognize each other at this point and their classes are much smaller, but the typical freshman and sophomore classes, no way in hell.
Hate to tell you, but life isn't like in the movies. You aren't John fricking McClaine and won't be able to anticipate if a student will run directly into your line of fire, or if they've hit the ground and decide to make a run for it. You are an idiot.
This post was edited on 10/1/15 at 9:40 pm
Posted on 10/1/15 at 9:41 pm to OMLandshark
9th graders are fricking crazy enough as it is, I wouldn't even trust them with toenail clippers.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 9:53 pm to OMLandshark
So people who disagree with you are idiots? Ok. Cool.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 9:58 pm to CroakaBait
I am really trying to think of a more chaotic situation than a mass murderer entering a large college class room shooting at others and then a few more people get up and start randomly shooting, especially considering they are 17-22 years old. Its highly contained and crowded environment with 1-3 entrances/exits, and masses just by instinct may flee towards the murderer not knowing exactly where the bullets are coming from, especially given the fact that the sound will be largely equally distributed throughout the classroom. Seal Team Six would find this highly challenging not to kill innocent bystanders, nevertheless 18 year Jimbo whose only experience with guns is hunting and a shooting range, and has 10 other kids his age who are armed to contend with and not instinctively shoot them once he sees they have a gun. Seriously, even if you think you have a clear shot at the shooter, what if a student is crouching on the floor between the two of you and then decides to make a run for it?
The only way this works out slightly positively is if the shooter enters through the back of the classroom, starts shooting towards the front, the lazy dude who sits right in the back corner is armed, and then shoots him a point blank range. And even then he is likely to get shot for being mistaken for being the shooter instead of the hero who saved them. There is very little possibility that regardless of your training, being armed in a crowded classroom would lead to less deaths.
The only way this works out slightly positively is if the shooter enters through the back of the classroom, starts shooting towards the front, the lazy dude who sits right in the back corner is armed, and then shoots him a point blank range. And even then he is likely to get shot for being mistaken for being the shooter instead of the hero who saved them. There is very little possibility that regardless of your training, being armed in a crowded classroom would lead to less deaths.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 10:04 pm to NLabosstiger
quote:
So people who disagree with you are idiots? Ok. Cool.
In this case, absolutely. Please think about the situation at hand. How would a few armed teenagers, I repeat, armed teenagers, improve this situation? These are people who are renowned for very poor decision making. Not to mention in this stage of their life showing up to class regularly high, drunk, or hungover. Sorry if I'm capable of rational thought on how this would go down and not assume these people would not be as up to the task as James Bond or Martin Riggs.
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